Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat
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@CrumblingCookie bpc actually works really well for intestinal issues. you dont need the arginate salt either, the commonly available acetate one is fine. the marketing on the former makes it sound otherwise. i actually looked into buying the patent for the arg form but it became clear they were just trying to offload the intellectual property because they realized there isnt really a market incentive for it
if you find ibrexafungerp somewhere id like to know. it’s like $150 a pill from GSK with a doctor’s prescription and without insurance coverage. the company that invented it actually probably sold it for too cheap imo. by what it sounds like it can probably replace fluconazole as an otc single pill form that are sold for women’s yeast infections at various drug stores.
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UDCA and TUDCA appear to be rather neutral towards fungi from what I can find.
I thought TUDCA was helpful on the basis of it being a secondary bile acid. But I also didn't find studies on that...
I've been taking TUDCA for about 10 days. And my body seems to get used to it. In the beginning it lead to loss of water retention, fuller muscles, better liver function and even a bile dump. Now it doesn't seem to do much anymore. Not sure why. But I often have the experience that I develope tolerance to things rather quickly.
I'had looked into therapeutic DCA use as well but it's also strongly cytotoxic to human cells. Or perhaps I'm not remembering correctly and endogenous DCA abundance is always being mixed up with a concurrent abundance of the more harmful LCA.
Yes I think it's also cancer inducing. And hard to find. Not even sure how you got the UDCA. Do you think there's any reason to take UDCA if I've tried TUDCA?
gentian and taraxacum are the basic cholagogics I believe tincture of gold coin grass aka Lysimachia aka Jin Qian Cao or glechoma hederacea was a profoundly effective addition back then, too.
Interesting I will check those out.
Have you guys tried serrapeptase or allicin?
The Biofilm buster + anti fungal protocols are quite popular on reddit and such forums. I do notice anti fungal effects from nattokinase. -
Kestose could be an interesting candidate. It increases deconjugated bile acids and increases bacteria that deconjugate bile acids.
Also increases 5aR in another study."...the levels of deconjugated bile acids, which are involved in the regulation of lipid synthesis, were increased. Furthermore, the 1-kestose intake altered the gut microbiota in the cecum, leading to an increase in the abundance of specific bacteria, such as Bifidobacterium, which are involved in the deconjugation of conjugated bile acids."
It strongly increases Cholic acid and other bile acids .
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Have you guys tried serrapeptase or allicin?
The Biofilm buster + anti fungal protocols are quite popular on reddit and such forums. I do notice anti fungal effects from nattokinase.ive tried serrapeptidase and of itseld it is an effective biofilm buster, both for external (from mouth to anus) and internal (vasculature and lymphatics). I have to find a dosage that would throttle the rate at which biofilm, as well as plaque, is lysed. And I have to cycle its use as well. I have to do a cbc weekly, to be able to see my wbc, as the contents held back by biofilm from lysed plaque as well as lymphatic biofilm, lead to a strong innate immune response, as seen by my wbc going very high (12 is the highest, compared to a reference range high of 9), but I think it will get higher if I just kept taking serrapeptidase, especially the high dose versions). I'm told that the high release rate of pathogens would lead to high levels in the blood, which would be detected in a cbc, and that is usually called bacteremia, though that is just a catch-all, as what's released may also nit just be bacteria but fungi, and virus(if I believe in their existence), as well as toxins, especially heavy metals). I was afraid it would trigger sepsis, but I am told that it won't happen, but even the bacteremia at veryhigh levels would have a very high inflammatory effect. My system could be overwhelmed still, and the last thing I want is to go to the ER not walking in but being brought in by an ambulance.
n.b. When I said I'm being told, it is my Deepseek AI, which I find gives me unpeaty answers initially but when AI challenge it would come to agree with many. Something I see positively than talking to most humans, especially doctors.
Since we are talking antifungals also, I have so far avoided pharma anti-fungals, having used essential oils that are esters, and put different essential oil esters together so they can have multiple pathways of action, more than what just one essential oil would have, given that each essential oil Ester brings its own combo of esters into the table. Esters are known for their antifungal properties. I make my own suppositories that have these essential oils in a carrier oil (coco butter, mct, vco etc]. Lately I have shown a preference for vco as it also contains a lot of lauric acid, which is anti-fungal. I like suppositories because it bypasses the liver first-pass.
Maybe serrapeptidase plus essential oils is enough, but it is highly dependent on my shoice of essential oils, and on this it is very hit or miss in its nature of being trial and error. But It is still effective though if I think whether it is 100% it may be with enough use over a period of time. As to use it as a stack with serrapeptidase could give it added potency.
Still, I have found it ineffective against a nagging knee pain on both knees, felt when I rise up from sitting, and when I walk up the stairs. That led me to taking borax of 3 x 30mg daily, which amounts to 10mg of boron daily. The cause of that knee pain is said to be fungal, and borax is an effective anti-fungal. I only came to use it last week and it actually lowered my eosinophils in my wbc differentials in my cbc. I am highly certain the drop in my eosinophils from 4.5 percent to 3 percent came from using it, as that was the only antifungal treatment I took last week. But last week I was taking 1 x 300mg of borax daily, which was an overdose. I corrected the dosage and am back to a sage daily dosage of 90mg (3 x 30mg). This morning, waking up, I felt less creaky joints, but it's too early to say but it likely would work at least for the kneess, as this was what Rex Newnham, the Australian doctor, sold his boron supplements for before the supplements were banned.
Next week, I should start a new protocol that had been sitting on the sidelines for 2 weeks because I felt it was lacking something and my mind was off gallivanting not necessarily focused but on a break hoping I would get a pleasant form of collateral damage. It did when I chanced upon a post on Threads about boron as an effective fungicide for industrial use. It made me come back full circle on using boron, which I had not developed enough respect for. Had taken it before, but in a way that says "what the heck, nothing ro lose."
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Interesting thanks for sharing. which essential oils do you find to be most effective ?
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@sunsunsun Thanks. How much and for how long had you been taking BPC orally? And what did it do for you?
I've started pinning 500µg pd yesterday. If it works as great as I desperately hope it will I'll be drinking it, gargling it, snorting it, dripping it in my eyes and ears and rubbing my face with it.@mauritio Serrapeptase is powerful. Gave me painful colon cramps even stronger than from pancreatic enzymes, which I assume fits in dumping syndrome as it reached lower GI parts it should never have without prior absorption.
But against fungi in particular I don't know. There are a few enzyme products which also contain (hemi)cellulases which I'd rather choose. Cellulases are the next best thing to actual chitinases to break down that respective part of fungal cell walls and biofilm.
@mauritio The allicin supplements seem like a well laid-out scam to me. The high prices and the tiny allicin contents are ridiculous. That's why chose fresh garlic. It's crucial to wait at least 10mins after crushing it so that alliinase can convert alliin to allicin.
@mauritio I reckon you're fine with TUDCA. I chose UDCA because I (A) reacted badly to extra taurine, (B) it's the medically used form, (C) it's cheaper.
I got it from my favorite dear courtly purveyor of fine powders from the lands of plenty far far east.
Just a thought I got: To keep an eye on repleted choline when you're staying keen on bile expulsion.
@Mauritio Kestose sounds more like an alternative to fat binders if the goal is to lose body fat through constant steatarrhea and bile acid loss. To not be bothered by these changes I reckon one's stool must be quite good already or even on the dry, constipated side. -
@CrumblingCookie once in awhile if I forgot not to lie down immediately after taking aspirin (can cause heartburn) or take aspirin on an empty stomach and it feels irritating I will take 250mcg-500mcg bpc and it cures it. a reconstituted vial lasts months in the fridge in the dark.
are you going to take florastor when you are done the anti fungal protocol?
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@sunsunsun starting chemotherapy for acne
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@sunsunsun Mhh... I was going to say no but now you've made me ponder whether it'd be good for a stretched-out transition of suppressing Candida species recolonization. Or whether its effects would be as bad on physiologic restoration as taking bacterial probiotics after antibiotic treatment...
It'd probably be good though to spend time along healthy forests and meadows in order to pick up a symbiotic mycobiome, I imagine. Perhaps to do both. -
Interesting thanks for sharing. which essential oils do you find to be most effective ?
These essentials that contain esters that are generally antifungal: petit grain, lavender, ylang ylang, clary sage, geranium, roman chamomile
Based on Advanced Aromatherapy: The Science of Essential Oil Therapy, 1995 by Kurt Schnaubelt, PhD
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@CrumblingCookie you can make fizzy juice with it by just dissolving the powder in juice and sealing the container
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@CrumblingCookie I’ve had tons of success with BPC, both personally and with people I’ve recommended it to. One caveat is that it’s most effective at 10mcg/kg of body weight. There is a single doctor in TX who has actually been recording his clinical success rates with it and this seems the threshold. Many if not all of the oral versions do not contain high enough doses to reach the magical 10mcg/kg dose.
If you don’t find you’re having success, check your dose and try this doctor’s recommendation. It healed a separated shoulder that bothered me for over a year in about a month at that dosage.
I’ve also recently tried the liposomal preparation by Infiniwell, and it healed some tendinitis I was dealing with in about 5 days, (typically I need 2 weeks to see a tendon injury heal with BPC).
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@lobotomize fungal infection can cause or increase risk of issues like liver damage or cancer or seizures, I suspect even warts and skin tags. a not-insignificant % of some organ cancers have been shown to have fungal infections as well and treatment of the cancer is more effective by treating the fungal issue too. OP thinks their issue is worth treating via the nuclear route so who are we to judge, especially when doctors generally don't take this kind of stuff seriously unless someone is already in the hospital and doing very poorly already. The potential toxic effect of flucocytosine might be worth it for the increased positive health potential afterwards.
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@evan.hinkle would you be a gentlemen and post a link, and clarify that you were taking bps-acetate orally to heal an injury?
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@sunsunsun https://infiniwell.com/products/bpc-lx-pro-spray
This is the liposomal spray I used recently and had a great experience with.
I’ve used their oral preparation in the past as well, but that’s the arginate version, (which you mentioned being less interested in)
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@evan.hinkle link to tx doctor reports?
all I mean about arginate form is if someone can't get it , it doesn't matter. im pretty sure the acetate form works like 95% as good even orally
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@sunsunsun the Texas doctor is something I came across a lifetime ago. I can’t imagine I could find it again. I may have heard about it via Jay Campbell’s podcast, (not bioenergetic orientated). Campbell was a somewhat mainstream early proponent of peptides. If it wasn’t there, then it was Ben Greenfield, (this was all pre-Peat for me).
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Kestose sounds more like an alternative to fat binders if the goal is to lose body fat through constant steatarrhea and bile acid loss. To not be bothered by these changes I reckon one's stool must be quite good already or even on the dry, constipated side.
Not sure, it has the same mechanism as many other things discussed in this thread. Increase in bile acid synthesis. TUDCA does that too.
On top of that it increases short chain fatty acids like butyrate and also F. Prausnitzii, which lowers serotonin and glycolisis and increases OxPhos and salicylic acid.
Since Im more on the constipated side of things I'll give it a go. -
These essentials that contain esters that are generally antifungal: petit grain, lavender, ylang ylang, clary sage, geranium, roman chamomile
Aren't some/ most of them estrogenic?
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
These essentials that contain esters that are generally antifungal: petit grain, lavender, ylang ylang, clary sage, geranium, roman chamomile
Aren't some/ most of them estrogenic?
Yes, they are. But they're for therapeutic use.
Antibiotics can be harmful, but we take them because usage is limited.
Usage of these is not a lifestyle choice.
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