Experiments with transdermal hormones
-
@wester130 I have no idea how soluble steroids are in the artificial vitamin E esters dissolved in ethanol. I have used artificial vitamin E, in the form of dl alpha-tocopherol oil (the natural alpha tocopherol is d alpha tocopherol), and it worked. It had a bad taste, whereas mixed tocopherols taste okay.
My advice is don’t cheap out, use the tried and tested natural tocopherol oils, you can find sources on this thread.
-
@alfredoolivas Thanks. My main concern is the long term suppression and need for PCT to stop part really.
I might even just make 2 different solutions; one to apply topically (T,DHT) and one to take orally (DHEA,Progesterone,Pregnenolone).
@alfredoolivas said in Experiments with transdermal hormones:
Vitamin E "Oil" from NOW. has 510mg of alpha-tocopherol per 1ml, so you can probably dissolve 50-100mg of steroids in there, per ml, with ease.
I have a couple bottles of those. I haven't ordered the powders yet since PPL is out of stock on DHT.
-
@Kilgore I get you. Long-term suppression only occurs with steroids that are esterified and have half-lives of up to weeks. Bio-identical hormones like DHEA, Pregnenolone, DHT and T, all have half-lives of around 20 minutes (even though the effects last for around a day people say anecdotally )
Short-term suppression of testosterone production occurs because increased levels of androgens (and their metabolites, such as estrogens) bind to pituitary receptors, reducing luteinising hormone (LH) signals from the brain. That’s all. The testicles remain undamaged; the suppression is simply due to elevated androgen and estrogen activity at the pituitary.
Once the androgen is discontinued, it leaves the body, and the pituitary resumes normal function, restoring natural testosterone production.
The exception is if the androgen use has caused damage to organs or organ systems. In such cases, structural changes may occur, leading to permanently reduced testosterone levels. This type of damage typically results from steroid abuse. On the other hand, TRT, when properly managed, can actually support and heal the body and its organ systems.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00365517709100649
"The effects of a one-month course of treatment with a p͟o͟t͟e͟n͟t͟ anabolic steroid, methandienone (5 and 10 mg daily), and a very weak androgen and hormone precursor, dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS, 20 and 40 mg daily) and placebo on plasma testosterone, LH and FSH levels, red cell volume and red cell 2,3-diphosphoglycerate (2,3-DPG) concentration in endurance sportsmen were studied using a double-blind test system. A highly significant decrease in mean plasma testosterone was observed after the 5 and 10 mg methandienone regimen (66 and 73%). Treatment with 40 mg of DHEAS decreased mean testosterone levels by 41% (not statistically significant). P͟r͟e͟-͟t͟e͟s͟t͟ ͟t͟e͟s͟t͟o͟s͟t͟e͟r͟o͟n͟e͟ ͟l͟e͟v͟e͟l͟s͟ ͟w͟e͟r͟e͟ ͟r͟e͟a͟t͟t͟a͟i͟n͟e͟d͟ ͟a͟b͟o͟u͟t͟ ͟1͟0͟ ͟d͟a͟y͟s͟ ͟a͟f͟t͟e͟r͟ ͟t͟h͟e͟ ͟e͟n͟d͟ ͟o͟f͟ ͟t͟h͟e͟ ͟t͟r͟e͟a͟t͟m͟e͟n͟t͟ ͟p͟e͟r͟i͟o͟d͟ ͟w͟i͟t͟h͟ ͟t͟h͟e͟ ͟h͟i͟g͟h͟e͟r͟ ͟d͟o͟s͟e͟s͟ ͟o͟f͟ ͟b͟o͟t͟h͟ ͟c͟o͟m͟p͟o͟u͟n͟d͟s͟, while 2–6 weeks afterwards a significant over-compensation in mean plasma testosterone levels was observed."
This is a study with a really toxic anabolic steroid, methandienone / Dianabol, and once the drug left the system, within 10 days, LH and testosterone levels returned back to normal.
@Kilgore said in Experiments with transdermal hormones:
I haven't ordered the powders yet since PPL is out of stock on DHT.
PPL stocks DHEA, progesterone, and pregnenolone at great prices, with DHEA available for just 80 cents per gram. Interestingly, their pregnenolone has a tested purity of 99.84%, which is nearly as high as the 99.9% purity standard from the past, back when pregnenolone was considered of higher quality and less prone to issues.
These days, most pregnenolone on the market has a purity of about 99.3%, and some claim this slight drop has led to problems. Whether or not that’s true is unclear, but that's what Danny Roddy claimed on Twitter.
-
Progesterone and DHEA both convert to DHT. I was talking to a guy who was taking DHEA and Pregnenolone 1:1 and said it had positive effects on him.
-
How is your experiment @metabolicmilk ?
-
@Kilgore this man ripped off pansterone and sold it.
the reviews are good though, even doubled Testosterone in one person
-
@wester130 At first circa October of 2023, that immitation product was even called "pansterone" and his whole website was called "pansterone.com". I wouldn't trust that company, given he was trying to impersonate IdeaLabs. Just my personal opinion.
-
@alfredoolivas i agree
-
I've finally gotten around to trying T in 95% alcohol + IPM. Started with 50mg T. I'll check in later if I notice anything.
Only thing different so far vs. DMSO is that I don't notice any crystals on my skin after drying, and of course none of the nasty DMSO smell. So I think that's a good start.
-
Looks like 70% alcohol + 30% IPM doesn't allow for T to penetrate the skin in my case. Same as DMSO. It also dries incredibly fast (within seconds). I could try throwing some MCT oil in there to prevent the quick drying but I doubt it would make a difference for penetration.
-
@Crypt-Keeper It's probably the concentrations you use in DMSO; I use 5% DHT in DMSO (50 mg DHT per ml of DMSO), and it absorbs perfectly fine, no crystals. T seems to be a lot less soluble in DMSO than it is in ethanol
-
@alfredoolivas I've tried the following:
- 50mg DHT / ml DMSO
- 100mg T / ml DMSO
- 100mg T / ml 95% alcohol
Both DMSO solutions leave visible crystals / white residue on the skin after drying. The alcohol solution didn't have any visible crystals on the skin after drying, but there is residue on my dark-colored undershirt.
In all cases the solutions were completely clear (no crystals) in the dropper bottle, so I think they're being dissolved well.
-
Okay, either DMSO doesn't work well or DMSO solutions are hard to heat up to the point where you can dissolve the hormones. Either way, this is a valuable lesson. Thanks for sharing.
Here is my method if you are interesteed: I put 1500mg of DHT inside a 30ml Idealabs dropper bottle, and using a funnel, I put 33 grams (30 ml) of DMSO inside the bottle too. I simply heat up the bottle for 12 seconds using a 1000W microwave, and it comes out maybe 60-70 degrees celsius and perfectly dissolved; I shine my light from the phone, through the bottom of the bottle, and if you look down the neck of the bottle, into the liquid, the light illuminates any undissolved particles if there are any.
-
It’s better to use a glass bottle so that the presence of crystals can be more easily confirmed
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
-
Thoughts on this?
https://x.com/BowTiedUM/status/1879899814756053406
-
@jamezb46 That's true, but I don't think it matters if you shine light through the bottom of the bottle.
I use a glass bottle when brewing my testosterone enanthate dissolved in benzyl benzoate and olive oil. However, some small undissolved particles are microscopic particles rather than crystals and, therefore, are invisible to the naked eye; light must be shone directly on the glass to reveal these undissolved particles in the solution.
-
@Kilgore It's just hype. In reality, there is no golden bullet when it comes to androgenic anabolic steroids; virtually every androgenic anabolic steroid will create these effects if you take a high enough dose, diet and train hard.
A select few accounts are currently hyping DHT esters up; DHT esters aren't even available on the market, and if there are any available, they certainly don't have a certificate of analysis, proving that it is DHT in the product.
For all we know, this "DHT" people are being sold could be another steroid like trenbolone, which also has profound effects; but really any anabolic androgenic steroid apart from those that cause water retention, could be in these DHT ester products, and easily replicate the effects of DHT.
If I see some studies on DHT propionate or enanthate, that shows it has unique properties compared to other steroids, I may change my opinion, but as I see it, this is anecdotally driven hype.
-
@alfredoolivas Not hype. There's a reason DHT and its esters are the most gatekept steroids/androgens. It is as anabolic as tren mg per mg.
These few accounts that are promoting DHT esters just have a source/mutual that makes DHT E and DHT P. It's not hard to esterify DHT base if you have some organic chemistry knowledge.
DHT enanthate has been studied and is an approved treatment for gyno. Part of why these transformations seem extreme is because the recomposition effect of DHT is actually that impressive, it literally "deletes" fat from estrogenic regions.
-
@alfredoolivas Not hype. There's a reason DHT and its esters are the most gatekept steroids/androgens. It is as anabolic as tren mg per mg.
Completely untrue; skeletal muscle expresses high concentrations of 3a-HSD the enzyme that deactivates DHT, which causes DHT to be deactivated in skeletal muscle and therefore express very little androgenic or anabolic effects in muscle tissue.
Whereas, trenbolone can't be metabolised by 3a-HSD in muscle tissues, allowing it to bind to muscle cell androgen receptors, without being metabolised.
Furthermore, trenbolone has an equal affinity to the unmetabolised DHT to the androgen receptor; it also directly binds to and antagonises the glucocorticoid receptor, which DHT cannot do.
So even if DHT was not metabolised by 3a-HSD in skeletal muscle, it would not be more anabolic than trenbolone.Therefore, this statement is incredibly untrue.
DHT enanthate has been studied and is an approved treatment for gyno. Part of why these transformations seem extreme is because the recomposition effect of DHT is actually that impressive, it literally "deletes" fat from estrogenic regions.
Anti-estrogenic ≠ equal fat loss
Anti-prolactin ≠ equal fat lossIf a substance being anti-estrogenic would induce fat loss, then exemestane would be the ultimate weight loss drug; but in fact, this is not the case at all.
Estrogen actually causes weight loss. Unlike the pro-DHT activists, I can actually show studies that firstly;
1.) Estrogen provides to the anti-obesity effects of androgens
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0031938479900453
"Treatment of castrated male rats with low doses of testosterone propionate (TP; 0.2 mg/day) increases food intake and body weight gain, but long-term treatment with a higher dose of TP (1 mg/day) reduces body weight gain and carcass fat content. Concurrent treatment with androsta-1,4,6-triene-3, 17-dione (ATD), which blocks the aromatization of androgens to estrogens, prevents the weight-reducing effects of high doses of TP. "
https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/162/6/bqab045/6155679
"Testosterone Reduces Body Fat in Male Mice by Stimulation of Physical Activity Via Extrahypothalamic ERα Signaling...Testosterone but not dihydrotestosterone decreases fat mass in obese hypogonadal male mice
2.) DHT is fattening itself
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16741268/"DHT treatment resulted in obesity, associated with reduced energy expenditure and fat oxidation. "
@pannacottas I am not claiming that DHT is fattening; I am simply claiming that alongside basically any other androgen, DHT is not the golden bullet for burning fat.
Your claims could simply be proven by providing studies that back these claims; if you have any, please share.
-
@alfredoolivas DHT e or p will be infinitely safer than tren.
