Why are you all so religious
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I suspect any benefits come from the community part of religion rather than the beliefs, not to be diminished I guess, particularly in the elderly.
As far as any real transformation goes, it's obviously very limited in what it can provide. Like psychology, Religion's opposition to explanations of suffering that can't ever include biology make it completely toxic imo.
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@JamesGatz said in Why are you all so religious:
Why did Ancient civilizations around the world make human sacrifices regularly to entities that seem to be "mythical"? Were they all just a bunch of brain-dead cavemen or do they know something that you don't? Think about it. Who could've taught them to engage in such practices?
Normies believe in all sorts of dumb shit. I don't know why you'd assume the crazy things they were doing in ancient time could be rational considering how they behave in our modern age.
The Powers that Be are extremely religious themselves
I think they are more pragmatic than religious. They love being rich and powerful above all else which is why they're mostly Malthusian.
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Had mystical experiences that led me to believe in God. Used to be agnostic, which seems to be the most intellectually honest approach if one did not experience God directly.
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@CO3 I didnt use the what about the other guys argument. If I implied that than I'm sorry. My point was that the abusers have by and large been exterminated, although there is still some of them in there. This was to show that it's not something that's intrinsic to Catholicism, and that it was a scandal over a certain time period in our churches.
Its horrible how you present data and make conclusions presumably off the same sources, then when I do it you make the data out to be dubious.
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@CO3 I dont get why that data would be a lie. You're saying our church supported the nazis, and prusmably youre using some sort of mainstream data. Yet when Im using data youre saying its dubious. Anyone can look at the map at who voted for Hitler and its almost identical with the Protestant areas, and the Catholic areas didnt vote for him. And, like I said, the Pope publicly called him out in this encylical from 1937:
"8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community - however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things - whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds."
"11. None but superficial minds could stumble into concepts of a national God, of a national religion; or attempt to lock within the frontiers of a single people, within the narrow limits of a single race, God, the Creator of the universe, King and Legislator of all nations before whose immensity they are "as a drop of a bucket" (Isaiah xI, 15)."
"17. The peak of the revelation as reached in the Gospel of Christ is final and permanent. It knows no retouches by human hand; it admits no substitutes or arbitrary alternatives such as certain leaders pretend to draw from the so-called myth of race and blood."
"The Church founded by the Redeemer is one, the same for all races and all nations. Beneath her dome, as beneath the vault of heaven, there is but one country for all nations and tongues; there is room for the development of every quality, advantage, task and vocation which God the Creator and Savior has allotted to individuals as well as to ethnical communities. "
And as a response:
"The release of Mit brennender Sorge precipitated an intensification of the Nazi persecution of the Catholic Church in Germany.[63] Hitler was infuriated.[2] Twelve printing presses were seized, and hundreds of people sent either to prison or the concentration camps.[2] In his diary, Goebbels wrote that there were heightened verbal attacks on the clergy from Hitler, and wrote that Hitler had approved the start of trumped up "immorality trials" against clergy and anti-Church propaganda campaign. Goebbels' orchestrated attack included a staged "morality trial" of 37 Franciscans.[64] On the "Church Question", wrote Goebbels, "after the war it has to be generally solved … There is, namely, an insoluble opposition between the Christian and a heroic-German world view".[64]"
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@Hando-Jin said in Why are you all so religious:
I suspect any benefits come from the community part of religion rather than the beliefs, not to be diminished I guess, particularly in the elderly.
Yep.
As far as any real transformation goes, it's obviously very limited in what it can provide. Like psychology, Religion's opposition to explanations of suffering that can't ever include biology make it completely toxic IMO.
Yeah, most (big) religions are about coping (as a normie/peasant) not about thriving as a leader/expert of a community... Moreover, religions are mostly as you said stuck in the Middle/Dark Ages...
BTW it's sad that such religious zealots, nazis, and incels here are creating noise (low vibrations) on this forum and scaring away some valuable people...
Panta rhei... | Liberté 🏴 | It depends... ;-)
A little Learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring:
~Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism -
@yerrag You describe the most high God.
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@Kvirion said in Why are you all so religious:
@Hando-Jin said in Why are you all so religious:
I suspect any benefits come from the community part of religion rather than the beliefs, not to be diminished I guess, particularly in the elderly.
Yep.
As far as any real transformation goes, it's obviously very limited in what it can provide. Like psychology, Religion's opposition to explanations of suffering that can't ever include biology make it completely toxic IMO.
Yeah, most (big) religions are about coping (as a normie/peasant) not about thriving as a leader/expert of a community... Moreover, religions are mostly as you said stuck in the Middle/Dark Ages...
BTW it's sad that such religious zealots, nazis, and incels here are creating noise (low vibrations) on this forum and scaring away some valuable people...
Hi Regina,
If neanderthals and cro-magnons understood God this way, what does this say about the current human species? Is this really a progression or is it a regression? In fairness, not all homo sapiens think in the vein of being programmed to believe in what is called faith that substitutes for reason and wisdom.
If a tree in an orchard is barren and does not bear fruit, should one keep watering the tree while other fruit trees can take its place?
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag said in Why are you all so religious:
If neanderthals and cro-magnons understood God this way, what does this say about the current human species?
LOL! Can you see a difference between an organized forcefull degenerated religion and a deeply personal in-depth (continuously evolving as a real theology) relationship with a god?
BTW isn't naming someone like "neanderthals and cro-magnons" a cardinal sin of pride?
religious zealots, nazis, and incels
Do you think that a one ancient commercialized religion taken to the extreme, one anti-humanistic ideology, and a misogynic approach to one of the sexes/genders can solve our current poly-crisis?
BTW wise words... https://youtu.be/BrmkLfeytqk
Panta rhei... | Liberté 🏴 | It depends... ;-)
A little Learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring:
~Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism -
One of the reasons is because you can’t be your own god. I have faith in Jesus, God has delivered miracles in my life, He has protected me, and has guided me around pitfalls.
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@Kvirion said in Why are you all so religious:
LOL! Can you see a difference between an organized forcefull degenerated religion and a deeply personal in-depth (continuously evolving as a real theology) relationship with a god?
BTW isn't naming someone like "neanderthals and cro-magnons" a cardinal sin of pride?
The joke is on us actually, laugh all you want- but at yourself. There is nothing to be proud of when we keep failing, and it's not that we're getting better at it each time we fail. You can't call it evolution when you are wrapped in straitjackets in your continual spiral into a religious helplessness centered on what is dressed up as faith while you become more and more helpless under a rules-based order that feeds you positivity and hopeful narratives while the world sinks into a barbarism with you dancing to the monotonous music of "hear no evil, see no evil" with each technological leap taking us more and more into a virtual reality of altered consciousness of controlled and curated media. Yet even as we try to break free, such as going into the forum we are in, we are just l slightly less contaminated as the spell can't help but seep in.
Keep calling and praying to Jesus while your priests and bishops and cardinals and popes and pastors do nothing, nada, zero- you hear me? - squat as they preach in unison about you being saved, and you're just as happy to know (or believe, or think you know) that you're saved from the manufactured fear of eternal damnation, and for that- you are quite content as a cow on pasture for you believe life is short, and you YOLO in your foreground while you blur the background which is fentanyl crazed, war mongering and execution dressed up as a crusade of morality and liberation, and genocides where the perpetrator points the finger back at the victim and you and your pastors ignore the truth and perpetuate lies such as this as part of the propaganda that is part and parcel of religion.
Not that I hate Jesus. He is exemplary and the best prototype of man that God ever made. One to be cloned in every person. It's that Jesus' name is being used against him in the very fabric of Christianity.
Watch what we do. And not what they say. And you know the hypocrisy lives in each of us. And don't play Pontius Pilate.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag A very accurate diagnosis of current civilizational problems. Appreciate it.
However, I still think that religious tones blur the situation, and are in some aspects maladaptive.
Jesus. He is exemplary and the best prototype of man that God ever made.
Yeah, but this prototype is still not enough for today. And not enough for me...
A new kind of spirituality for the 21st century would be a better solution.
BTW I don't believe in remorse. I support reciprocated altruism and redressing unjust wrongs.
And nobody should play Pontius Pilate because of this wisdom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhobcj2K9v4Panta rhei... | Liberté 🏴 | It depends... ;-)
A little Learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring:
~Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism -
@Kvirion said in Why are you all so religious:
BTW it's sad that such religious zealots, nazis, and incels here are creating noise (low vibrations) on this forum and scaring away some valuable people...
I'm wondering if it's on purpose....
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@Hando-Jin I've been around these people for a while (through peat twitter which is mostly made up of these people) and I can say that no, for the most part they are not actively trying to subvert this thing we have going on thanks to Ray.
There's some people that I think do fall into that category online. But for the vast majority I personally think they are adventurists and opportunists. The upside there is that I also know some people that come out of this world, find Ray's works and then improve themselves and let go of that stuff. The Internet is problematic, which is why Ray was so adamant the digital culture needs to be dismantled.
Another good thing is that this forum does not carry Ray's name, so all the cringe is more tolerable since it's not directly blemishing his legacy. You might count me among these people. as someone that thinks the political side of things is deeply important and affects health more than anything, and I think that's where you would be delineating the disciplines in a harmful way.
Either way it's important to just assume the Internet is a trash heap and you have to see the forest through the trees.
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@Hando-Jin i don't think most people are religious because it's practical. Maybe some are, but that would be for the wrong reasons
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@Kvirion said in Why are you all so religious:
@yerrag A very accurate diagnosis of current civilizational problems. Appreciate it.
Thanks.
However, I still think that religious tones blur the situation, and are in some aspects maladaptive.
It is very much maladaptive. Jesus' "Love thy enemies" does not mean chronic one-way violence that perpetuates the moral hazard of perpetual harm to one class with impunity.
Jesus. He is exemplary and the best prototype of man that God ever made.
Yeah, but this prototype is still not enough for today. And not enough for me...
He gets angry. Anger is amoral. What he did to the moneychangers outside the temple is laudable.
A new kind of spirituality for the 21st century would be a better solution.
I welcome this idea.
BTW I don't believe in remorse. I support reciprocated altruism and redressing unjust wrongs.
And nobody should play Pontius Pilate because of this wisdom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhobcj2K9v4Along with reciprocated altruism goes the natural inclination for "tit for tat" as a moderating third rail against abuse of power, and the re-balancing of good and evil in this world.
The natural world has this balance. Human society is so gamed that this balance is gone foe good.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag said in Why are you all so religious:
Along with reciprocated altruism goes the natural inclination for "tit for tat" as a moderating third rail against abuse of power, and the re-balancing of good and evil in this world.
Agreed. BTW Recently, I saw a good video about tit for tat history https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM
The natural world has this balance. Human society is so gamed that this balance is gone for good.
Yes, unfortunately...
Panta rhei... | Liberté 🏴 | It depends... ;-)
A little Learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring:
~Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism -
I think 1) Anything related to self-improvement will naturally be assimilated into the Christian gospel/mythos of rising from a fallen state, or at least that's what I got when I saw a large amount of the high follower Peat accounts on Twitter were Christian, 2) Anything esoteric or mystic will attract the religious and superstitious, I need no more than to point to Landshark's account.
@CO3 I request citation on the catholics collaborating with the nazis, so I can uhh... attack them more effectively. Yeah. Or at least I had dealt with deranged natsocs who attacked catholics specifically because they opposed Hitler or abetted the jews in some way, so it's alien to see people say the opposite.
Regarding religion's practical use in health, I don't know why one would expect some correlation between one's understanding of ultimate truth and of their eternal destiny, with one's immediate and simple health. Christianity is foremost an otherwordly ideal, and immediate health is a secondary concern. It's the same reason Christians cuck on various eugenic imperatives so they can maintain moral integrity. Even evolutionary regress is not the greatest evil one can suffer.
But conversion can inadvertently cause health improvement, whether it be Buddhism or Christianity or whatever. Pointing out any group of disingenuous or lukewarm believers does nothing to falsify this, that's just human vice at play. And even without religion people will invent some abstract philosophical principle to move themselves in a good direction - that's the point of Nietzche's affirmations of life. "March of science"-esque atheism is only one type of secularity, and its ardent skepticism erodes even simple mystical beliefs about life and good action.
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@Kvirion Thanks for the links. Understanding tit for tat from the first link you sent is the perfect segue for the second link on game theory.
I think people can be less likely to use their bully pulpit when they and their audience understand how at times what is intrinsically evil can be a social good.
Sister Prejean of Dead Man Walking conversely is doing something intrinsically good while encouraging a social evil.
