DEPRESSION
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@basebolt Are you lifting?
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@basebolt It sounds like you do need thyroid, but maybe not T3 alone.
You didn't mention salt. That would be good. As well as magnesium.You didn't mention numbers on the liver status.
Inosine is great, but I don't think high dose makes sense.
Have you ever tried to run a course of minocycline?
I am really liking Mike Fave's coffee hack.
I add:
2 level tsps Capra Mineral Whey
4 tsps beef gelatin (I use NOW brand)
1/2 tsps ceylon cinnamon
pure cane syrup to taste
to my morning cappachino.
He does molasses. But these hacks are super warming and satiating.Do you get enough gelatin? How is your diet? Do you live at any kind of elevation? Can you get out in the sun? Can you hike in nature?
I take 2 baking soda capsules and aspirins with orange juice before doing yard work.
I'm not so sure very high doses of every vitamin makes sense. It's consistency.
I take 20 drops of Energin with my hacked coffee. I'll take vitamin E and D3 some days. -
Sounds like you need to hit the "reset" button for a couple weeks. I would drop pretty much all the supplements. Focus on your diet, sleep, and activity. This is important to do because it sounds like it's impossible to really know what's effecting you positively or negatively. For one, hormones don't work instantly. It takes thyroid therapy at least a month to really start kicking in. Barnes suggested in his manual to stick with a certain dosage for 3-4 weeks before adding to it, because that's how long it takes to buildup.
I would recommend dropping everything for several weeks and letting yourself get back to baseline. In the meantime, focus on eating cleanly. Get protein, calcium, salt, and carbohydrate. Meat, fruits, dairy, eggs, and cooked vegetables. Eat calf liver once a week, and maybe some shellfish too (if you aren't allergic). Good fiber sources are oat bran, wheat bran, raw carrot, cooked button mushrooms, and berries.
Start monitoring your temps and pulse during this period. Both before and after your meals. This will give you a better ballpark estimate if you're a suitable candidate for thyroid therapy or not. Also take into consideration your bloodwork. Do you have high cholesterol, high tsh, etc. I know you said the tsh is normal, but that's why it's important to never rely on just one thing. Tsh can be normal or even low and still be low thyroid. Only then would it be advisable to start adding things and seeing how you respond. And don't add to many things too quickly. Just adding thyroid can take several weeks to "get right."
People rarely take the optimal dose the first time, and since it takes several weeks before you know how that dose will effect you, it's probably best to not be adding anything. How else will you know if it's helping when you add pregnenolone, or aspirin, or testosterone, etc during the same period? I highly advise avoiding the vitamin A detoxes as well. ESPECIALLY if you're on thyroid. I'm on thyroid, and I can physically feel it when I've gone too long without beef liver. You may or may not need vitamin D3 as well.
Also what is your life like? What I mean is, there's no "chemical" solution to a shitty life. We are social creatures, you should hangout with friends. If you don't have any, then you should put in effort to meet people. What do you like to do? Find people you can relate with, and they can relate to you.
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@basebolt Lifting was beneficial for me, creatine has helped me as well. Wish you all the best.
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@Regina said in DEPRESSION:
You didn't mention numbers on the liver status.
ALT, AST, GGT are good. I do have a moderately fatty liver though. im not overweight
@Regina said in DEPRESSION:
Have you ever tried to run a course of minocycline?
no. but ive taken antibiotics before. orally and IV.
@Regina said in DEPRESSION:
Do you get enough gelatin? How is your diet? Do you live at any kind of elevation? Can you get out in the sun? Can you hike in nature?
ive experimented with gelatin. my diet changes a lot. sometimes i forget to eat for a few days due to low appetite. ive tried basing my diet on mostly milk and other times mostly beef. ive tried high sugar intake.
im at sea level
i inconsistently get sun. for a few months i spent hours outside. that was before i corrected my niacin deficiency though. i do feel like inadequate exposure to bright light could be negatively affecting me
ive tried walking in nature. not consistently though
@Regina said in DEPRESSION:
I'm not so sure very high doses of every vitamin makes sense. It's consistency
i struggle with consistency when i feel so bad
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@Mulloch94 said in DEPRESSION:
Sounds like you need to hit the "reset" button for a couple weeks. I would drop pretty much all the supplements. Focus on your diet, sleep, and activity. This is important to do because it sounds like it's impossible to really know what's effecting you positively or negatively. For one, hormones don't work instantly. It takes thyroid therapy at least a month to really start kicking in. Barnes suggested in his manual to stick with a certain dosage for 3-4 weeks before adding to it, because that's how long it takes to buildup.
I would recommend dropping everything for several weeks and letting yourself get back to baseline. In the meantime, focus on eating cleanly. Get protein, calcium, salt, and carbohydrate. Meat, fruits, dairy, eggs, and cooked vegetables. Eat calf liver once a week, and maybe some shellfish too (if you aren't allergic). Good fiber sources are oat bran, wheat bran, raw carrot, cooked button mushrooms, and berries.
Start monitoring your temps and pulse during this period. Both before and after your meals. This will give you a better ballpark estimate if you're a suitable candidate for thyroid therapy or not. Also take into consideration your bloodwork. Do you have high cholesterol, high tsh, etc. I know you said the tsh is normal, but that's why it's important to never rely on just one thing. Tsh can be normal or even low and still be low thyroid. Only then would it be advisable to start adding things and seeing how you respond. And don't add to many things too quickly. Just adding thyroid can take several weeks to "get right."
People rarely take the optimal dose the first time, and since it takes several weeks before you know how that dose will effect you, it's probably best to not be adding anything. How else will you know if it's helping when you add pregnenolone, or aspirin, or testosterone, etc during the same period? I highly advise avoiding the vitamin A detoxes as well. ESPECIALLY if you're on thyroid. I'm on thyroid, and I can physically feel it when I've gone too long without beef liver. You may or may not need vitamin D3 as well.
Also what is your life like? What I mean is, there's no "chemical" solution to a shitty life. We are social creatures, you should hangout with friends. If you don't have any, then you should put in effort to meet people. What do you like to do? Find people you can relate with, and they can relate to you.
ray peat recommended thyroid and b1 for depression. he also told a story about a cat eating a bunch of thyroid powder and panting and being happy. but dont some people experience heart arrhythmias and thyroid shrinkage side effects?
to me it seems thyroid could play a big role. is it possible to work up to extreme doses like 2,000 mcg t3 in order to try and experience relief of depression? i feel that may happen. if my body can tolerate it what is the exact harm, if you know? i have raw cabbage on hand in case it is needed. im also going to do my own reading on this. ive seen medical reports of 10,000 mcg accidental poisoning in several cases and they survive
i generally believe im going to have to find a chemical solution, at least temporarilly. unless i can join some amish community... i barely have the motivation to drive it is pretty bad
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@basebolt 2,000mcg is an extreme dose. Thyroid is cardio protective in most cases (look into Broda Barnes's work). People with heart complications are recommended to start out at lower dosages and gradually buildup. But using it like a stimulant how bodybuilders do isn't that healthy. I take 3 drops of TyroMix 3x daily. So that's a total of 54mcgs of T4 and 27mcgs of T3.
Broda Barnes suggests it's rare, but some people may need up to 4 grains of thyroid daily. 4 grains (Which is a lot according to the leading MD in this field) is 152mcgs of T4 and 36mcgs of T3. So, to reiterate, 2,000mcg is EXTREME.
I would guess those people survived because they were administered an anti-thyroid medication, possibly intravenously. Which is a lot more certain than drinking raw cabbage juice, which may or may not work for massive overdoses. Don't do something stupid. Just try thyroid at a normal dose and gradually buildup until symptoms subside.
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Eat high carb + very low fat bro ( carbs 400 gram + , total fat below 10 gram , PUFA below 1,5 gram)
Supplement thiamine HCL at 300 - 500 mg daily to turn the carbs into CO2.
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I know people don't want to hear that on Peat-related forums, but have you considered that your symptoms might have psychological causes?
If you're aligning the basics of your diet with Peat's insights, you're already doing better than 99% of the population on that front. So perhaps the solution isn't the final weird supplement cocktail, diet mineral ratio or detox procedure? I am talking from personal experience. Thought and metabolism are strongly interrelated. Ironically, Ray has done a lot of work related to that, but people usually focus only on his work related to nutrition and hormone physiology, because it's more easily accessible and closer to the Zeitgeist.What does your living situation look like? Do you have family / people around you, who care about you? How many hours a day do you spend consuming media? How many hours a day do you spend doing something creative / productive? ...
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I'm facing this consideration too currently dude... Very interested to hear what is said on this thread the next few days
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Feeling consistently much better. Still have chronic depression, however there is a sense of peace and calm now. It is more bearable.
The basic Peat advice is good and there are some specific things too that are potentially helping.
Methylene Blue
From a high quality source. Haidut mentioned 10 mg / day being useful for depression and that is what I use.Cyproheptadine
Low dosage, and thrice per day because that makes it more effective. Sometimes my first dose will be metergoline instead.Folinic acid
The other B9 forms, folic and methylfolate, are toxic at high doses. This isn't necessarily Peaty and could have negative effects. It apparently may have Peaty epigenetic effects. 20 mg / day from a dropper bottle.Salt supplementing
AlloP from idealabs
High doses and low doses. Sometimes intranasally and in the eyes.Many of these I cycle off of for a little bit. Will be trying Peaty euphoriants/antidepressants like LDN and selegiline (cautiously) soon. Also I see a psychologist infrequently.
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After eliminating gluten from my diet my 50 years of chronic depression completely went away. I would definitely try 4 weeks gluten free to test.
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Zinc (moderately high dose, around 60mg)
Methylene blue, 2mg
Aspirin
Thyroid
Cyproheptadine, 3mg (in the evening before bed)These are the most helpful supplement interventions I've found for mood issues and depression. Also make sure you're eating enough protein (I would aim for 1.2g/kg bodyweight minimum)
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Thanks guys
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How was your bromantane experience? Have you tried kratom? Its not meant for long term use but its an antagonist at 5 ht2a and 2c iirc and agonises presynaptic 5 ht1a , also has some action at MOR (which we dont want but can be helpful short term esp. if pain issues) and at NMDA (antagonist). Its also an instant fix for anhedonia.