Thyroid Log
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@hypercashoidism It’s below the lower limit, that’s too low. last time I tested, my SHBG was 12.
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Starting to realize that I have conversion issues. On T4 alone, I feel awful, very fatigued. On T4 + T3 nibbles, much better, I'm able to function.
I've also been reading on why T3 monotherapy is not sustainable and doesn't work in most. When you take T3 only, it will suppress your TSH, causing your thyroid to produce much less T4 naturally. That's why you need to add T4 in the right amounts. Too less exogenous T4 will leave you with your thyroid production suppressed and at the same time, the exogenous amount will not be enough.
I also don't agree with Ray and Danny Roddy saying that Calcium and Iron, and food in general, doesn't interfere with thyroid absorption %. Because I've been reading how people who were on T4 monotherapy and eating within 1hr of taking the medication saw much better results when they ate 4hrs after taking the medication. So they either took it at night 3-4 hrs after last meal, or very early in the morning, 4-6AM. -
Switched to 100mcg T4 and 12 - 25 mcg T3 after latest blood tests.
TSH went down to 1.16.
FT3 in the middle of the range
FT4 dropped to 13.5.Judging from the blood tests, it looks like:
- both exogenous T3 and T4 suppress TSH
- exogenous T3 also suppresses (or lowers, depending on the dose) the body's natural production of T4, because the body senses more active thyroid hormone, so it downregulates natural production of T4. This is thy T3 monotherapy doesn't work long-term.
- To compensate for the FT4 drop due to exogenous T3, we have to supply a generous dose of T4
I’ve been feeling better and better. Fatigue has been diminishing.
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Current dosages:
- 100 mcg T4
- 12-20 mcg T4 (it varies on a day by day basis). The goal is to eventually wean off T3 and be on T4 only.
For the past 3 days, I have set an alarm at 5am to take my thyroid meds. This is to allow 4 hrs between the meds and the first meal of the day. I'm doing this to get maximum absorption from the meds. I'm aware that this is not what Peat advised, and it's more in line with mainstream advice about T4 dosing, but I'm willing to experiment.
Since taking my dose at 5AM, my temps have been consistently high. Pulse is decent too. Not consistently high, though.
Overall, I feel slightly better with my energy levels, but other symptoms are still present for the time being.
When my pulse and temps are both high (higher than 37.0 C, and pulse over 80), I feel slightly euphoric. -
Quick update
Daytime temps are good, I often reach 36.8 - 37 C. Nighttime temps are lower from what I noticed, they go as low as 36.0 or 35.8, even in the summertime.
I haven't been feeling that great on 125 mcg T4 (+ added T3). I think the T4 is making me feel emotionally flat, numb. Libido and vitality hasn't improved.
I might switch things up and lower my T4 intake.Blood tests look good, TSH between 1 and 1.5 on this amount of T4, FT4 mid-normal range, FT3 mid-high range.
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Reduced my T4 dosage and already feeling a difference within less than 2 days. I woke up in a better mood and more fresh this morning.
It’s clear that all that T4 was partially converting to rT3. -
@GreekDemiGod said in Thyroid Log:
Reduced my T4 dosage and already feeling a difference within less than 2 days. I woke up in a better mood and more fresh this morning.
It’s clear that all that T4 was partially converting to rT3.Keep in mind selenium is very important for T4's conversion to T3. A relatively sterile small intestine is important too, as endotoxin blocks that conversion.
Danny had the opinion that people with poor liver function (likely from endotoxin) respond better to less T4. Like a 2:1 or even 1:1 ratio of T4 to T3. There's probably some truth to this.
But I get the impression a lot of people believe it's best to just role with those ratios forever, lol. Taking T3 and T4 in even ratios can be a get-by, but it's not really a permanent solution. It's best to fix whatever is wrong the liver. Which isn't so easy, and usually require rigorous experimentation with diet. Namely removing any and all problematic foods (grains, legumes, nightshades, FODMAPS, etc.). Even fruits with a really high fructose:glucose ratio can be problematic for some people.
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L LucH referenced this topic on
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What is your copper status? Have you tested ceruloplasmin?
If you're low in copper, that could affect your thyroid Rsy Peat, Generative Energy).
I did an experiment, and began to incorporate a fermented crustacean sauce (common to Southeasr Asians) to my intake of cooked greens. After a year, my ceruloplasmin went from low of range, at 22, to high of range at 38.
Ray recommends eating shrimp, but I didn't like the idea of eating something that's farm-raised with plenty of antibiotic, and I figure crustaceans would be a good substitute.
Red light therapy would be useful to ensure the copper gets to increase your cytochrome oxidase needed in the ETC in mitochondrial respiration.
Since no one really knows the right amount to supplement copper, it is better to eat copper-rich foods, and I would recommend you to do so. The caveat is you may need to acquire a taste for the fermented crustacean, something you have to overcome. Otherwise, the fermented crustacean sauce is affordable and easily bought at Asian grocery stores. In Filipino groceries, it is called bagoong.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag I never tested Ceruloplasmin, from what I remember.
At some point, I supplemented Copper for a while, I was into that Copper Revolution group. It didn't made a difference and I also didn't want to go very high dose. -
The test isn't a special one that you would have a hard time getting it tested. But ore more expensive than common tests.
Copper is not he only thing that could affect your thyroid, but it's a likely one if you've covered everything else. I mean, even a chronic low grade infection could be an energy sink that makes your thyroid suboptimal.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
So it turns out the brand that I've been using hasn't been reliable. I was using an unknown pakistan brand.
Hopefully, I'll get my hands on some Novotiral soon (100:20 ratio T4/T3).That's why I ended up on a seemingly high-dose. My suspicion was that the product wasn't reliable or potent enough.
Another thing I noticed that I ended up feel dull and emotionless at some point, then I dropped the pills for 2-3 days, felt better, then worse again, and when I got back on the pills, better again.
I'll have some moments/ hours when I can feel my metabolism really high and feel great, more energetic, more extroverted. But I haven't yet been able to make it consistent.
Hopefully, I'll have a better experience with Novotiral. -
@GreekDemiGod How have things been going? Any improvements?
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Blood tests on 150 mcg T4 and 30-45 mcg T3.
TSH 0.012
Ft3 10.2 pmol/l (3.1 - 6.8 range)
Ft4 25.1 pmol/l (11.9 - 21.6 range)Apparently, I am currently hyper since switching to Novothyral. Much more potent.
I have yet to feel extraordinary, but last couple of days I felt better than my average.@RFC32 was still struggling this summer. Better since I switched to Novothyral.
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Time for an update.
Currently doing 125 mcg T4 and 30-40 mcg T3 spread through the day. I have seem to reach a point of stability, where my morning and evening temps are consistently good. 36.4 - 36.6 C in the morning, 37 - 37.2 C in the evening. Pulse is also decent, 70-70 bpm on average.
Do I feel better on this dose of thyroid, and having a suppressed TSH? Yes, but the benefits are mild, not massive.
The main benefit I get now is having more stable energy levels. My level of fatigue has reduced by 20%, I'd say. Not yet to the level I should be if I were in a pristine state of health. I still feel mildly hypothyroid.
Brain fog is also mildly reduced.Still have some level of depression, anhedonia.
And sadly, my libido and Testosterone levels have not improved on thyroid.The conclusion is that while I do get a benefit from the correct thyroid dose, that one being higher energy levels, my root health issue is not the thyroid. But it is my digestion: intestinal microbiota, sluggish liver, low bile flow
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Very stable morning and evening temperatures.
Stable energy levels from one day to another.
Still not feeling as vibrant and energetic as I'd like, but I am definitely better. -
what do you eat ?
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@A-Former-User said in Thyroid Log:
what do you eat ?
Carbs: honey, oranges, berries, dried raisins, rice, green beans, peas, sometimes bread or oats.
Protein: eggs, beef, goat or sheep cheese, tuna, white fish, lactose free milk
Fats: olive oil, coconut oil, butterI also eat some vegetables like tomatoes, cucumbers, and I’ll have a salad 2-3 times per week for microbiome diversity.
2 cups of coffee daily with honey and cream or coconut oil.
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@GreekDemiGod Wow so you’re doing about 3 grains?
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I have decided to slowly wean off thyroid, safely reduce the dosage over the next 2 months, and eventually quit. Simply put, the benefits aren't worth the hassle. I have seen some benefits, but not to the level I'd desire.
And I still have a functioning thyroid and see no reason to risk atrophy of the organ by taking exogenous thyroid long-term.I also started seeing the appearance of some grey hairs, perhaps being in a hyper state caused some nutrient depletion (Copper?).
At least, I now know that thyroid wasn't my core problem. Because if that were the case, then I'd have felt much greater effects from thyroid.
Even having hyperthyroid levels on blood tests did not improve much my energy levels, or libido.My core problem remains my digestion. And low libido too.
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@BroJonas what is your activity level? do you get sunlight often?
