Thyroid Log
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Quick update
Daytime temps are good, I often reach 36.8 - 37 C. Nighttime temps are lower from what I noticed, they go as low as 36.0 or 35.8, even in the summertime.
I haven't been feeling that great on 125 mcg T4 (+ added T3). I think the T4 is making me feel emotionally flat, numb. Libido and vitality hasn't improved.
I might switch things up and lower my T4 intake.Blood tests look good, TSH between 1 and 1.5 on this amount of T4, FT4 mid-normal range, FT3 mid-high range.
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Reduced my T4 dosage and already feeling a difference within less than 2 days. I woke up in a better mood and more fresh this morning.
It’s clear that all that T4 was partially converting to rT3. -
@GreekDemiGod said in Thyroid Log:
Reduced my T4 dosage and already feeling a difference within less than 2 days. I woke up in a better mood and more fresh this morning.
It’s clear that all that T4 was partially converting to rT3.Keep in mind selenium is very important for T4's conversion to T3. A relatively sterile small intestine is important too, as endotoxin blocks that conversion.
Danny had the opinion that people with poor liver function (likely from endotoxin) respond better to less T4. Like a 2:1 or even 1:1 ratio of T4 to T3. There's probably some truth to this.
But I get the impression a lot of people believe it's best to just role with those ratios forever, lol. Taking T3 and T4 in even ratios can be a get-by, but it's not really a permanent solution. It's best to fix whatever is wrong the liver. Which isn't so easy, and usually require rigorous experimentation with diet. Namely removing any and all problematic foods (grains, legumes, nightshades, FODMAPS, etc.). Even fruits with a really high fructose:glucose ratio can be problematic for some people.
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L LucH referenced this topic on
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What is your copper status? Have you tested ceruloplasmin?
If you're low in copper, that could affect your thyroid Rsy Peat, Generative Energy).
I did an experiment, and began to incorporate a fermented crustacean sauce (common to Southeasr Asians) to my intake of cooked greens. After a year, my ceruloplasmin went from low of range, at 22, to high of range at 38.
Ray recommends eating shrimp, but I didn't like the idea of eating something that's farm-raised with plenty of antibiotic, and I figure crustaceans would be a good substitute.
Red light therapy would be useful to ensure the copper gets to increase your cytochrome oxidase needed in the ETC in mitochondrial respiration.
Since no one really knows the right amount to supplement copper, it is better to eat copper-rich foods, and I would recommend you to do so. The caveat is you may need to acquire a taste for the fermented crustacean, something you have to overcome. Otherwise, the fermented crustacean sauce is affordable and easily bought at Asian grocery stores. In Filipino groceries, it is called bagoong.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag I never tested Ceruloplasmin, from what I remember.
At some point, I supplemented Copper for a while, I was into that Copper Revolution group. It didn't made a difference and I also didn't want to go very high dose. -
The test isn't a special one that you would have a hard time getting it tested. But ore more expensive than common tests.
Copper is not he only thing that could affect your thyroid, but it's a likely one if you've covered everything else. I mean, even a chronic low grade infection could be an energy sink that makes your thyroid suboptimal.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
So it turns out the brand that I've been using hasn't been reliable. I was using an unknown pakistan brand.
Hopefully, I'll get my hands on some Novotiral soon (100:20 ratio T4/T3).That's why I ended up on a seemingly high-dose. My suspicion was that the product wasn't reliable or potent enough.
Another thing I noticed that I ended up feel dull and emotionless at some point, then I dropped the pills for 2-3 days, felt better, then worse again, and when I got back on the pills, better again.
I'll have some moments/ hours when I can feel my metabolism really high and feel great, more energetic, more extroverted. But I haven't yet been able to make it consistent.
Hopefully, I'll have a better experience with Novotiral. -
@GreekDemiGod How have things been going? Any improvements?
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Blood tests on 150 mcg T4 and 30-45 mcg T3.
TSH 0.012
Ft3 10.2 pmol/l (3.1 - 6.8 range)
Ft4 25.1 pmol/l (11.9 - 21.6 range)Apparently, I am currently hyper since switching to Novothyral. Much more potent.
I have yet to feel extraordinary, but last couple of days I felt better than my average.@RFC32 was still struggling this summer. Better since I switched to Novothyral.
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Time for an update.
Currently doing 125 mcg T4 and 30-40 mcg T3 spread through the day. I have seem to reach a point of stability, where my morning and evening temps are consistently good. 36.4 - 36.6 C in the morning, 37 - 37.2 C in the evening. Pulse is also decent, 70-70 bpm on average.
Do I feel better on this dose of thyroid, and having a suppressed TSH? Yes, but the benefits are mild, not massive.
The main benefit I get now is having more stable energy levels. My level of fatigue has reduced by 20%, I'd say. Not yet to the level I should be if I were in a pristine state of health. I still feel mildly hypothyroid.
Brain fog is also mildly reduced.Still have some level of depression, anhedonia.
And sadly, my libido and Testosterone levels have not improved on thyroid.The conclusion is that while I do get a benefit from the correct thyroid dose, that one being higher energy levels, my root health issue is not the thyroid. But it is my digestion: intestinal microbiota, sluggish liver, low bile flow
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Very stable morning and evening temperatures.
Stable energy levels from one day to another.
Still not feeling as vibrant and energetic as I'd like, but I am definitely better. -
what do you eat ?
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@A-Former-User said in Thyroid Log:
what do you eat ?
Carbs: honey, oranges, berries, dried raisins, rice, green beans, peas, sometimes bread or oats.
Protein: eggs, beef, goat or sheep cheese, tuna, white fish, lactose free milk
Fats: olive oil, coconut oil, butterI also eat some vegetables like tomatoes, cucumbers, and I’ll have a salad 2-3 times per week for microbiome diversity.
2 cups of coffee daily with honey and cream or coconut oil.
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@GreekDemiGod Wow so you’re doing about 3 grains?
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I have decided to slowly wean off thyroid, safely reduce the dosage over the next 2 months, and eventually quit. Simply put, the benefits aren't worth the hassle. I have seen some benefits, but not to the level I'd desire.
And I still have a functioning thyroid and see no reason to risk atrophy of the organ by taking exogenous thyroid long-term.I also started seeing the appearance of some grey hairs, perhaps being in a hyper state caused some nutrient depletion (Copper?).
At least, I now know that thyroid wasn't my core problem. Because if that were the case, then I'd have felt much greater effects from thyroid.
Even having hyperthyroid levels on blood tests did not improve much my energy levels, or libido.My core problem remains my digestion. And low libido too.
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@BroJonas what is your activity level? do you get sunlight often?
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Last couple of months, I’ve been quite regular with my digestion. Getting multiple bowel movements daily, without needing to resort to helpers, or laxatives, such as Magnesium, Cascara.
The bowels don’t have perfect shape, there is still some level of inflammation/ constipation, but my bowel regularity has much improved.
It just occurred to me that it might be a benefit from taking thyroid. Or simply my digestive health being improved from regular fibers, such as oats, carrots.I am still taking thyroid, currently 75 mcg T4 and 25mcg T3. Will continue for the time being.
Looking back I do get benefits from thyroid, so it's worth to continue taking it.Main benefits:
- Improves constipation, more frequent, better bowel movements
- improves morning brain fog
- 10-20% improvements in overall energy levels.
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@GreekDemiGod take any additional supps? like tudca etc. what ur current plan action for biome, have any sibo symptoms?
i ameliorated mine with more prebiotic/fibre and probiotic. looking into kefir. k2 is expensive n kefir is like unlimited source of that but lactic acid appaerently a problem. maybe supplement bicarb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT2NVQWO4W8&t=574s&pp=ygUPZW9udXRyaXRpb24gZ3V0
mike fave website his day of eating diet looks good too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-nms6T1YvM&t=1s -
@the-MOUSE what ur t levels? frequency ejac/morning wood. ability put on muscle
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Getting to the correct and effective doses of T4 and T3 is quite tricky. I have yet to reach a ratio that works great.
I've been trying to gradually lower my T4 intake, as I didn't felt quite as energetic for a while and was suspecting that I have low conversion into active thyroid hormone from my gut issues.
Once I do that, and start increasing T3, I feel great for a day or two, then I crash again. Temps go lower too.
At that point, taking a large dose of T4 (75 mcg) quickly raises my baseline energy levels.
This is what happened this weekend.If I take thyroid, I am functioning ok on a T4 amount that is at least 100mcg. I don't really understand why do I need such high doses.
