Studies showing cancer reversal / shrinking

[cs3000]

@periander345 a bath is ~5g malic acid + baking soda per L water (warm instead of hot is better for more co2) for covering body. tried it in an awkward to reach place on my back with a small round plastic container , sawed 2 slits in it and fed a thin tie through. It feels like an absolutely backward approach lol probably better to just lay back on top of a bowl filled to surface. tried glycerin gel and adding powders but doesnt sustain the reaction in small area
the co2 direct would probably only apply to tumors near skin level local to application site (they used tumor graft models)

[periander345]

@cs3000 hmmm. Very interesting. Could you use something different than Malic Acid? I know people use CA but that stuff is questionable...

[Mauritio]

Cineol

https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/tudca.8954/post-971631

[Mauritio]

Diisopropylamine dichloroacetate (DADA)

Increases oxidative phosphorylation and lowers lacate

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27582548/#&gid=article-figures&pid=figure-2-uid-1

[cs3000]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15132968/
https://sci-hub.st/10.1210/en.2004-0079

when Shh path gets increased (like when androgens get depleted, with a delay) prostate cancer grows

and other tumors like brain tumors ,
this is grafted on so not the same as being in brain, but a sonic hedgehog inhibitor (yeah its called that) created regression & nearly fully by 20 days.
https://sci-hub.st/10.1126/science.1073733
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12202832/


but cyclopamine used has some toxicity concerns its teratogenic causes birth defects during pregnancy. but they said no apparent detrimental effects.

• Whatever its biological basis, the general requirement for
  Hh pathway activity in medulloblastoma growth represents a
  potential therapeutic opportunity, because cyclopamine and other
  pathway antagonists can be administered in effective doses with no apparent detrimental effects in rodents and other mammals

orally though stomach acid transforms it so less effective & maybe more toxic https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20236786/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1144444/
also sonic hedgehog path is needed for neuron development so use of inhibitors might be a problem if potent https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10375501/
and might be needed for eye damage repair (is in amphibians) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15013805/

Instead forskolin should work similarly

rhabdomyosarcoma lines from humans
on the 2 less aggressive types using high dose forskolin stopped or regressd tumors (but gave ulceration at injection sites so had to be done every 2 days nearby)

it should be effective at lowering sonic hedgehog path on lower dose orally through cAMP. but higher doses needed to activate cAMP in hypothyroidism. and for general use it might be anti androgen.

[cs3000]

@cs3000

Melanoma remission by frankincense (boswellia) oil extract

big difference in the dose though 300mg/kg didnt get close , 600mg/kg did but i.p which is generally closer to subcutaneous than taking orally unless oral bioavailability is high.

they dosed once every 2 days

they used Boswellia sacra type not Boswellia serrata
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6544398/#s2

Boswellia serrata trailed on people with brain tumors for lowering edema (less concentration gets there for the full anti tumor effect probably, or different type)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21287538/

In the patient with the highest BS serum levels (5
samples, all positive with an average KBA concentration
of 123.1 ng/mL [range, 53.25-153.49 ng/mL]) one of the
largest edema reductions was observed. His edema volume
was reduced by more than 300 mL from baseline to the
time after radiotherapy

Progression-free survival, which could be a parameter for an antitumor effect of BS, did not differ between the 2 groups

In the placebo group, 18% of patients had progressive disease (PD), 36% stable disease (SD), 36% partial response (PR) and 10% complete response (CR). In the BS group, 0% had PD, 62% had SD, 25% had PR, and 13% had CR.

Progression free survival didnt differ , but the boswellia group 0% had progressive disease? so i guess they still died with the non progression because enough tumor was there?

They used 4200 mg/day split into 3 times a day at 85% acids. 1.2g of boswellia acids at a time * 3

In the BS patients, tumor volume (biggest lesion) changed from an average of 24.4 cm3 before radiotherapy to 2.9 cm3 after radiotherapy compared with 19.9 cm3 to 16.1 cm3 in the placebo group

---

Using boswellic acids orally in rats it only worked before the tumor was established. https://sci-hub.ru/10.1023/a:1006387010528

In the first study the Boswellia sacra type might be less toxic to dose high than serrata which has more a-thujene (not thujone though)
They look mostly similar in boswellic acids ratios apart from sacra had much more AKBA too https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6273064/#sec2-molecules-21-01329
BUT
Looking around ive seen some analysis of boswellia sacra showing 70% a-pinene instead of boswellic acids
https://ultranl.com/frankincense-essential-oil-chemotypes/

So different extraction methods give either high % boswellic acids or high % a-pinene for the sarca type

and another study the first authors did used an extract mostly a-pinene https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2221169115001446

so this study was on a-pinene from Oman boswellia

It is well established that the principal component of FEO is α-pinene with other terpene mixtures

Not sure if this high amount would be safe to take orally in grams, sounds like it though (likely potent GABA effect though)

Terpenes can be irritants at least mildly so probably a good idea to dilute in some oil

i think its got good absorption % orally,
i.p administration still goes through metabolism in the liver if other metabolites play a role or cause lowered amount

Mastic gum / resin or its oil is high in a-pinene >50% (not its leaves)

~800mg hits ~900ng/ml in humans and its the free form found too
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7466295/

Some problems: pinene might have a lot smaller half life in humans than rats,
maybe some potential for toxicity in high doses or inhaled but idk how relevant https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9298155/#S15

• Certified Hojari grade Boswellia sacra gum resins were obtained from the local market. Essential oil was extracted by hydrodistillation method as described earlier [24]. Briefly, Boswellia sacra resins were loaded into 55° C water with a ratio of 1:2.5 (w/v), and mixed with an electromechanical agitator for 30–45 min or until a thick homogenous mucilage was formed. Temperatures of the hydrodistiller were monitored by an infrared thermometer; and pressures were recorded at the condenser terminal. To remove any residual water, collected Boswellia sacra essential oil (FEO) was immediately transferred into a –20° C freezer; and ice crystals were separated from the essential oil.

• Histological studies revealed that tissue sections from FEO-treated animals did not indicate any detectable pathologic abnormalities as examined by H&E staining. The liver showed normal hepatic lobular architecture, intact central vein with trapped red blood cells in a liver section from FEO treated animals

• To determine whether 1200 mg/kg body weight of FEO treatment elicits changes in body weight and toxicities to normal major organs, we examined brain, heart, liver and kidney of treated and untreated groups of Swiss albino mice. Histological sections of these tissues from FEO treated mice did not show any detectable pathologic abnormalities as examined by H&E staining

• Treatment with FEO (250 and 500 mg/kg body weight) reduced elevated levels of AST and ALT induced by acetaminophen administration

(so showed liver protective effect even at the high dose, but by itself by the images looks like it had some extra liver burden, that didnt progress to significant abnormalities yet, in a toxicity study 2000mg/kg of 100% a-pinene killed the rats but 300mg/kg didnt

[cs3000]

updated the last post

[Mauritio]

I found some terpenes in this shop among them a-pinene and phytol. Not sure if they're food grade , but seems like it.

https://goldcoastterpenes.com/shop/terpene-isolates/alpha-pinene/

[cs3000]

@Mauritio good price thanks, i found some b-pinene which has similar effects in vitro (sometimes more potent than a-pinene sometimes not).
the positive (+) enantiomeric form of these might be more potent
b-pinene not a tumor study but used 200mg/kg orally in rats https://alz-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/alz.076020

[cs3000]

starting after tumors already established
Lemon + Ginger created breast tumor regression
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9043650/
the treated group had much smaller tumor weight initially

wamidh talibs research on tumors with natural compounds over past 10 years with great results,

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.nut.2017.06.015 in this one lemon alone at higher dose 50mg/kg in mice (as extract, from dried fruit and peel) gave -83% reduction in tumor size (not reduction in growth, regression from initial size it shrunk that much, in 14 days

, all groups had similar initial tumor size, (controls showed 30% without tumors probably showing the initial tumor didnt establish in these)

[cs3000]

(important context for this 1)

60mg/kg succinate orally shrank liver tumors https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(24)02958-4

Succinate also decreased tumor incidence (3/6 mice in the succinate group vs. 6/6 mice in the PBS group, p < 0.01), tumor number (p < 0.01), and tumor load
, succinate also significantly suppressed the growth of subcutaneous PLC/PRF/5 xenografts (p < 0.01) and tumor weight

Vitamin E succinate didnt work well in ovarian https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8176246/#sec11 can be high expression of SUCNR1 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7488939/ (but a dataset i saw showed similar between liver & ovarian?)

,

• the context is SUCNR1 was low in the liver. So it only applies to tumors with low SUCNR1

Otherwise adding succinate / activating SUCNR1 more = increased metastasis

e.g lung cancer

In lung cancer, succinate derived from the cancer cells activates the SUCNR1 receptor and facilitates tumor metastasis through the PI3K/AKT pathway
However, data from The Cancer Genome Atlas (TCGA) indicate that SUCNR1 expression is considerably decreased in liver cancer, suggesting a distinct role for succinate in liver cancer.

Succinate binding to SUCNR1 activates several signaling targets, notably mitogen-activated protein kinases (MAPKs), and increases intracellular calcium and prostaglandin E2 (PGE2)
Succinate induced migration of LLC, A549, PC3, and HT-29 cells, which was blocked by antiSUCNR1 antibodies but not control IgG antibodies
. Furthermore, succinate induced invasion of LLC and HT-29 was similarly inhibited by SUCNR1 antibodies
succinate induces HIF-1a expression in a SUCNR1-dependent manner
Our results show for the first time that serum succinate concentrations are elevated in patients with lung cancer when compared to healthy subjects

• succinate induces HIF-1a and il-6 in macrophages via SUCNR1
  

Kidney & lung especially high
https://v23.proteinatlas.org/ENSG00000198829-SUCNR1/pathology

regression result worked for liver specifically

[alfredoolivas]

@Mauritio yes, each product has 2 COAs. https://goldcoastterpenes.com/safety/

[Mauritio]

@alfredoolivas cool thanks

[cs3000]

A-pinene
200mg/kg mice dose but subcutaneously (orally would be metabolised different, caution needed tho there is a lethal dose)
just 2x a week

https://doi.org/10.1159/000479863

prostate cancer shrank , nearly went

one of the studies before using an essential oil 61% a-pinene worked given i.p , for melanoma at 600mg/kg not at 300mg/kg , mice
they used it 1 day on 1 day off
tolerated well enough with a day off between, for 2 weeks
no idea how that compares to oral absorption for this
In rats, orally All 3 animals in the high dose group [2000 mg/kg] died 24 hours after dosing. No mortalities occurred in the low dose animals [300 mg/kg] and no treatment-related effects were observed at necropsy.
idk how well translates to humans but (orally) in mice none died 2000mg/kg here acutely , and 400mg/kg of alpha or beta pinene was used for 2 weeks for seizures https://doi.org/10.1111/fcp.12416 (might see some liver damage taken daily though which is why i think they did 1 day on 1 day off in the other, showed liver protection). grams might not be tolerated well orally without causing the shits