I would say that Georgi Dinkov is up there with the greatest of the great
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Absolutely agree!
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He does great research. And he makes some good supplements available to us. His blogs and vlogs are a wealth of information. I have benefited greatly from learning and applying what I learned from his research and his products.
Though I try to stay away from being too dependent on using his products. As many of his products are useful but still endogenous to the body. And when I don't use his products, it is because I am more healthy and can produce enough of these endogenous substances such as hormones. They're very useful though, especially when I need to jumpstart my body into eventually be producing them as my bodybkicks into high gear into a virtuous cycle of producing enough of them.
To his credit, Georgi doesn't push his products too much. His soft sell approach scores good points.
He is an avid promoter on the use of niacinamide. Like that of an evangelist with a fervor. Which is great in aiding the body increase the oxidative processes involved in mitochondrial respiration.
He can get too far when he talks about niacinamide as an inhibitor of lipolysis. Used too much, as when I megadosed 1000mg daily in a span of 3 months, I gained 10 lbs. mostly with ascites in the waist area. When I stopped megadosing, I lost all thst weight back in a month or teo, even while bed-ridden recovering from a nasty cat bite around my ankle bone, while I ate as usual.
As niacinamide keeps fat stores from being released into fatty acids, which are used to produce energy using fatty acid oxidation.
One can be easily led into thinking that fatty acid oxidation is all bad when the bioenergetic mindset is pervasively and perversely centered on the idea that fatty acid oxidation is to be avoided, which is an impression that the lack of nuance is present when it comes to how our body relies on sugar and fat to power mitochondrial oxidation. Georgi himself recently has talked on this subject, where as long as fatty acid oxidation does not exceed a third of the total energy being produced by the mitochondria, sugar metabolism won't be impeded and glycolysis won't be used in place of mitochondrial oxidation in metabolizing sugar, as glycolysis is both inefficient (much less energy produced than mitochondrial oxidstion) and produces lactic acid instead of the beneficial carbon dioxide.
Many would miss this nuance, and many would keep bedeviling fats, its intake and its oxidation, regardless of whether it is PUFA or SFA.
It doesn't help that Ray Peat's writings refer to fat intake and its metabolism lumped together as to be avoided, when it is implicit to those who read Peat enough to know Peat is referring to PUFAs. And Georgi uses this vagueness liberally in stigmatizing fatty acid metabolism.
This entrenches the impression that fatty acid metabolism is to be avoided, when the reality is that fatty acid metabolism is used by the body to conserve the use of sugar stores in the body. To keep a reserve available for the brain and the red blood cells, which are highly dependent of sugar metabolism to thrive.
While the Randle cycle is frequently mentioned to stigmatize all fatty acids regardless of it being PUFA, or MUFA or SFA, and raise sugar metabolism to its pedestal, this needs to be tempered considering the value of fatty acid metabolism as a complement to sugar metabolism in the maintaining the health of the body. We all know PUFAs are bad, and SFAs and MUFAs aren't.
I think Gyorgi can do better to temper the lynching of fat metabolism in the bioenergetic community.
Some members who have been more candid in the RPF have called into question why Gyorgi can't seem to lose weight. Out of respect for him, I have stayed away from that discussion, as I prefer to see that as Gyorgi's personal Waterloo, and that in time he'll overcome that. As one who has taken the challenge of lowering my very high BP in vain over 20+ years, I hope Gyorgi, as I, will eventually figure out and emerge from each our own personal morass.
I am not one to give unsolicited advice, but I would be happy to give Gyorgi some advice if he should pm me. I am like Peat in that I don't exercise much, but unlike Peat, I maintain good muscle tone and have good structure. Not to disparage Peat, but to appreciate him for spending more time doing research and writing that leaves little room for him to exercise as much. Still, he died with a lot in front of him to research, to write and explain.to us. I think his case is he lost the forest for the trees. If only there were less trees for him, he would have covered more of the forest.
Gyorgi also covered a lot of trees and he can lose the forest in the process. I think this is why Enrico Fermi is very highly regarded. It is because he knows his theory very well, but his good grasp in theory did not keep him from applying his theory in practical aspects. This is where the rubber meets the road.
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@yerrag always appreciate your comments yerrag! Just read a Mark Twain quote that you might like: "If you don't read the newspaper you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper you're mis-informed." He was such an insightful man.
I also really like Giorgi. The one product of his I try to use several days a week is Oxidal. But I really like his studies on haidut.me.
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@yerrag The thing with Georgi is that we have to fish for him for a little bit more detail and structure. The people with whom he was in a podcast usually promote their ideas or products so even if he tries to say something more its hard. By the way with the Nicotinamide he stated in the RPF that first he had to loose the fat before doing it, so he was on Quinone with coffee and then included the B3. With the fat oxidation a person has to be extremely careful as far as I understand.
I also use a bunch of his products like Energine for example protects me from mosquitoes and also if there is a mfbastared who bit me, it heals it as a magic. Quinone for my PMS helps in a huge way I dont need painkillers anymore, plus I am like 1,80cm baby cant live without milk so I need my K2.
Following him and his advises helped me a lot the last 2 years and I don't think of changing him for anyone else.
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He is
but 8mcg in his t3 product is fucking gay. Get that down to 1mcg.
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I wonder how Mark Twain gets to know things we know when back then it seems fake news is much easier to spread. Maybe in his time, people weren't as gullible. Maybe he was educated in the Little House on the Prairee.
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@Vasi1311 said in I would say that Georgi Dinkov is up there with the greatest of the great:
@yerrag The thing with Georgi is that we have to fish for him for a little bit more detail and structure. The people with whom he was in a podcast usually promote their ideas or products so even if he tries to say something more its hard. By the way with the Nicotinamide he stated in the RPF that first he had to loose the fat before doing it, so he was on Quinone with coffee and then included the B3. With the fat oxidation a person has to be extremely careful as far as I understand.
With fat oxidation, there is a lot we have come to understand from the early days of RPF. As we gain more understanding, we get to see it less as the Big Bad Wolf. It only becomes one when people who fail big time in burning sugar resort to saying sugar is the Big Bad Wolf and turn fat oxidation into Cinderella. Nuance is not easy even for Ray. He can show us why mitochondrial respiration is optimal. But yet fail to say that mitochondrial respiration also involves fatty acid oxidation. And that leaves us thinking mitochondrial sugar metabolism is exclusive to mitochondrial respiration.
I guess it's oftentimes much easier to lose the nuance and talk in black and white when one needs to convert people to love sugar instead of hating it.
But we should stop being ideologues as we transition into a better understanding of mitochondrial metabolism.
I also use a bunch of his products like Energine for example protects me from mosquitoes and also if there is a mfbastared who bit me, it heals it as a magic. Quinone for my PMS helps in a huge way I dont need painkillers anymore, plus I am like 1,80cm baby cant live without milk so I need my K2.
Following him and his advises helped me a lot the last 2 years and I don't think of changing him for anyone else.There is Quinine and there is Kuinone. I don't know if there is some mix up, but regardless, Gyorgi's products have helped many, and yes, he is awesome. But like Peat, he is still learning but way ahead in the curve
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@yerrag Yes sorry Kuinone, is my beloved one lolll. You are right just simply I don't think he is that black and white visioner Because even he said in one if he had clinic for loosing weight he personally would give a spoon of saturated fat 3 times a day. But you are right and you understand what you are talking about, while I listen, keeping notes, experiment and if it works, amazing.
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@Ray-Peat-Fanboy he's retarded just like danny roddy. and he's obese. the guys in this thread who like these sorts of people have a lack of critical thinking skills so they can't figure things out
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@rayshit said in I would say that Georgi Dinkov is up there with the greatest of the great:
@Ray-Peat-Fanboy he's retarded just like danny roddy. and he's obese. the guys in this thread who like these sorts of people have a lack of critical thinking skills so they can't figure things out
I doubt if you have the kahuna to stand up to scrutiny, hiding under the cover of anonymity. And acting like you have the answer to everything. Even Ray Peat would laugh at you, henpecked as you really are.
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@yerrag ray peat is dead. and you're an anonymous hypocrite
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@Vasi1311 t. obese guy who thinks seed oil is the root cause of all illness
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@rayshit you're a loser. get a life.
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@rayshit listen you mother fucking peace of shit I aint your mother to validate your feelings! You are barking at the wrong tree.
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Look RPFBs fan threads are a bit weird in my opinion. But whatever.
@rayshit said in I would say that Georgi Dinkov is up there with the greatest of the great:
who like these sorts of people have a lack of critical thinking skills so they can't figure things out
Let's talk about you sport. You don't seem to have much figured out while you're feeling the need to throw shit at people who make themselves available to you for conversation about things most people won't talk about. Have you been isolated your whole life. Because your understanding of anything is a conversational exercise somewhere, with someone.
If you have a problem with Dinkov's science, constructively critique it in one of his threads here. Or on twitter. The only problem I can find with this guy in myself is that he seems a little doomful at times. But again whatever, it's a motivator to something useful. And a test for an observer not to have the future prescribed.
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@ThinPicking @Vasi1311 @yerrag you three against me in a ring, 10 minutes, and it's over with yall's cockiness. dinkov's science stinks. mostly animal studies and poorly interpreted at that (same goes for ray sheet albeit slightly more sophisticated)
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@yerrag
I think you are correct about the shying away from the topic of fat metabolism, but I think this has to do with a lack of good answers in the research on this subject. I think Ray liked to focus on subjects that he had certainty or at least relative certainty on. If you read his articles, it is very difficult to disagree with any of his claims as he was very careful in his wording and direction. When it comes to fat metabolism, there are a few things that are clear and a few things that are not so clear. The clear answers are
-stress hormones increase lypolysis
-human fat stores tend to be a higher percentage unsaturated(perhaps intentionally to slow down metabolism in times of famine)
-polyunsaturated fats interfere with glucose metabolism and slow down metabolism
-saturated fats inhibit lypolysis while polyunsaturated fats increase itThe less clear answers/questions:
-is saturated fats interference with glucose metabolism dose/time dependent and what are the doses and time where interference happens
-does saturated fats interference with glucose metabolism matter? Or does increased blood sugar stability and decreased lypolysis outweigh these issues?
-what percentage of fat metabolism in mitchondria is ideal?I think the reason researchers shy away from these questions is that there aren’t really good answers out there. Ray knew that small amounts of saturated fat could stimulate metabolism through competitive inhibition of circulating polyunsaturates. He knew that mitochondrial glucose metabolism was ideal. He knew that lypolysis tended to release polyunsaturated fatty acids into circulation. Until he was certain of other aspects of fat metabolism, I don’t think he wanted to be boxed into a corner that he couldn’t defend with certainty. And I don’t think there is a lot of certainty out there in the research.
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@rayshit said in I would say that Georgi Dinkov is up there with the greatest of the great:
@ThinPicking @Vasi1311 @yerrag you three against me in a ring, 10 minutes, and it's over with yall's cockiness. dinkov's science stinks. mostly animal studies and poorly interpreted at that (same goes for ray sheet albeit slightly more sophisticated)
So good for you to finally realize people won't put with you with your coarse language intended to troll. Trolling is all you are doing, nothing else. You can't bring anyone to your side because all you do is bitch like a cry baby. Why are you even here? Do you want to learn something? Or do you have something of substance to share? If not, stop wasting your time and ours.
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@jamsey said in I would say that Georgi Dinkov is up there with the greatest of the great:
@yerrag
I think you are correct about the shying away from the topic of fat metabolism, but I think this has to do with a lack of good answers in the research on this subject. I think Ray liked to focus on subjects that he had certainty or at least relative certainty on. If you read his articles, it is very difficult to disagree with any of his claims as he was very careful in his wording and direction. When it comes to fat metabolism, there are a few things that are clear and a few things that are not so clear. The clear answers are
-stress hormones increase lypolysis
-human fat stores tend to be a higher percentage unsaturated(perhaps intentionally to slow down metabolism in times of famine)
-polyunsaturated fats interfere with glucose metabolism and slow down metabolismIt seems clear to me that you have read Ray a lot to understand his message and that he was still sorting out a few missing pieces to make his overall picture of inter-relationships more robust and coherent. I agree with all of the above conclusions you gathered about what has been more certain.
It still has been empirically-based and hard to explain on the why side of it, for some aspects of it. Like on why PUFAs and not SFAs interfere with glucose metabolism. As I went at least 4 years cold turkey on PUFAs and saw its fruits in turning around my blood sugar stability, my improved metabolism, and my increased imperviousness to allergies and respiratory infections.
Pre-Peat I subscribed to the metabolic typing principles of William Donald Kelley, which was even more empirically-based but valid just the same. Even though I was baffled in trying to understand the mechanism involved that explained why I am a certain metabolic type (fast metabolic), with the idea that people are disposed to be one of four general metabolic types and that there were food and supplements that would be helpful for each type in order to eventually become a balanced type, which is ideal. All Kelley would say is that we are affected or defined by our autonomic nervous system in its parasympathetic and sympathetic. Stated that way, I knew this was an explanation to end all further questions. All I could make of it is an "ohhh..." in the same way I would bow and bend my knee to the understanding (or mystery) of quantum physics.
It was with reading Peat that I found much of the answers, after much reading of him scattered all throughout his newsletters and interviews. And it mattered which part of the timeline I was reading from. As Ray was still learning while he was writing, but not in the way some health experts do by winging it and making things up. We only know that as his views would change over time, but we can only know that by reading and following him. He realizes this flux as well, and he cautions us to not simply trust his word, but to also do our own research and to be critical.
More and more, I understand this as part of the discovery process. There are answers, and there are definitive answers, and some that open up more questions than answers.
-saturated fats inhibit lypolysis while polyunsaturated fats increase it
I am unsure about this. As even poultry and pigs plump up on PUFAs, and if PUFAs increase lipolysis, shouldn't the chickens be lean eating PUFAs?
That observation applies to human.
As well as my pets. Koi and cats. My koi and cats eat fish (raw for koi and cooked for cats) and mature coconut flesh ( finely chopped for koi and grated for cats) and they don't get plump and cute (show koi are plump and not healthy) and plump cats seem like an accident waiting to happen.
The less clear answers/questions:
-is saturated fats interference with glucose metabolism dose/time dependent and what are the doses and time where interference happens
-does saturated fats interference with glucose metabolism matter? Or does increased blood sugar stability and decreased lypolysis outweigh these issues?I don't agree with the basic premise behind these questions though. As I doubt SFAs interfere with glucose metabolism when fatty oxidation remain relatively small compared to sugar mitochondrial oxidation. I believe it even moderates the rate of glucose metabolism to keep blood sugar levels more stable and stay within limits that avoid excess insulin secretion from high blood sugar and an adrenalin/cortisol response from low blood sugar.
As to the last question, Blood sugar stability does not have to come together with decreased lipolysis If you just consider insulin as a an inhibitor of lipolysis, and consider also that insulin secretion and levels are increased when blood sugar is high (not a feature of blood sugar stability), you would see that as blood sugar becomes more stable, insulin levels are lower, and lipolysis is less inhibited. This means with blood sugar stability comes more lipolysis. I believe this provides more substrate for fatty acid oxidation to go along with good mitochondrial sugar oxidation. Tempered though by FAO being under the shadows of sugar oxidation.
-what percentage of fat metabolism in mitchondria is ideal?
In a recent interview with Mercola posted by @DavidPS , Haidut said FAO would not interfere so much with mitochondrial sugar metabolism as long as it is a third of sugar metabolism. I may have paraphrased a bit.
I think the reason researchers shy away from these questions is that there aren’t really good answers out there. Ray knew that small amounts of saturated fat could stimulate metabolism through competitive inhibition of circulating polyunsaturates. He knew that mitochondrial glucose metabolism was ideal. He knew that lypolysis tended to release polyunsaturated fatty acids into circulation. Until he was certain of other aspects of fat metabolism, I don’t think he wanted to be boxed into a corner that he couldn’t defend with certainty. And I don’t think there is a lot of certainty out there in the research.
I agree. I am that way, and you are that way as well, when we prefer not throwing something out we would later have to take back.
