Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?

Mossy

@LucH said in Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?:

L-glutamine + taurine and glycine (or collagen).
1° for the stomach line
2° as antioxidant
3° as moderator (excito-toxity)

I'm curious of your opinion about Peat's dislike of glutamine. What do you think about either omitting glutamine from this combination or replacing it with an alternative that would be more Peat friendly?

wester130

@Mossy

why not threonine?? converts to glycine and is also proven to heal the gut too

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316622029881

LucH

@Mossy said in Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?:

I'm curious of your opinion about Peat's dislike of glutamine.

Yes, glutamine in excess (when taking a supplement) could take the pathway glutamate, which is an excitatory substance for the brain. Not desired when in excess. That’s the excitatory side, which is counterproductive when the balance is not reached.
On the other way, we need glutamine as material for the border brush of the intestinal wall. That's the usual material.
We have to find a right equilibrium. Low doses and a moderator like glycine and taurine. Glycine as a gaba-like affect; taurine as an anti-oxidant and so much more – very much more for the brain.

My shake (100-120 ml water or in orange juice), this evening:
1/8 tsp taurine
¼ tsp glutamine
2/3 dose magnesium bisglycinate ( 1 dose = 2.5 g)
1 tsp collagen (glycine)
¼ tsp calcium citrate if required (if under 850 mg Ca) but not every day, of course (…). CaPh would be a better choice if ---

Edit: Glutamine powder becomes / could become only glutamate when passing through the border brush (if no used up).

Reminder:
Taurine as a neuro-protector and moderator of excitotoxicity (1)
Taurine exerts its neuroprotective functions against glutamate-induced excitotoxicity, particularly the glutamate-induced increase in intracellular calcium levels.
Taurine also serves to maintain the structural integrity of the membrane [6], to regulate calcium binding and transport [7, 8], as an osmolyte [9, 10], neuro-modulator [11], neuro-transmitter [12–18] and neuro-protective against neurotoxicity induced by L-glutamate (L-Glu) [19, 20]. Excuse for so little!
Sources and references:

Role of taurine as neuro-enhancer, transmitter and protector against the neurotoxicity of glutamate.
Wu, JY., Prentice, H. Role of taurine in the central nervous system. J Biomed Sci 17 (Suppl 1), S1 (2010). https://doi.org/10.1186/1423-0127-17-S1-S1
What makes taurine so important? (in French, translator needed)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1840-quest-ce-qui-rend-la-taurine-si-importante?highlight=taurine

Mossy

@LucH
Interesting. I appreciate the shake recipe. I assume gelatin powder or straight glycine could replace the collagen?

Mossy

@wester130 said in Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?:

threonine

Interesting, as well. Your thought is to replace the entire combination with this one amino acid?

oliveoil

I’m starting to take acerola powder along with collagen to boost collagen synthesis. Acerola powder is extremely rich in vitamin c, half a gram gives you the whole daily value.

That being said, I don’t know if it comes with any tradeoffs

LetTheRedeemed

@wester130 interesting. I don’t know about it.

wester130

@Mossy you can add it in instead of glycine

LucH

@Mossy said in Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?:

I assume gelatin powder or straight glycine could replace

Yes, when taking 10 g glycine, you only assimilate 2 g (20 %). (Study given by Haidut)
I'd take the half dose in the shake (5 g powder).

LucH

@oliveoil said in Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?:

Acerola powder is extremely rich in vitamin c, half a gram gives you the whole daily value.

yes, but remind that 500 g acerola is not 500 g L-ascorbic acid. +/ 20% vit C.
And if it mentions more on the product, it's a fake (lie) or a possible "poison" (half effective vitamin C added => not recognized by the body / cell fouling).

LucH

Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?

• iHerb.com: Doctor's Best – Pure Vitamin C Powder with Q-C
Doctor's Best, Poudre de vitamine C pure avec Q-C, 250 g (8.8 oz.) 23€ / +/ 20 $ in January 2025
NB: Scottish source (labo DSM) when you see the label Q-C.

Useful Info when Buying Vitamin C
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1884-achat-de-vitamine-c-et-caracteristiques#26178
We are going to group together in this post the characteristics published on several posts on this forum (in French, translator needed)
 Vitamin C dosage
 What to pay attention to when purchasing?
 Where do you buy vitamin C?

AinmBeo

@LucH
Do you have the link to that post from haidut?

"Yes, when taking 10 g glycine, you only assimilate 2 g (20 %). (Study given by Haidut)"

LetTheRedeemed

Thanks @LucH !

LucH

@AinmBeo said in Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?:

Do you have the link to that post from haidut?

I didn't find it back (20% glycine absorbed)
But I have these sources from Julien Venesson, in French (translor needed if details required). Trustful.
Apport de collagène en poudre selon l'âge (Collagen powder intake according to age)
https://www.julienvenesson.fr/glycine-collagene/#:~:text=Le collagène et la glycine amélioreraient les gains de masse musculaire&text=Le collagène est une protéine de structure qu'on retrouve,selon la pression du sang.

Si glycine pure : 8 à 15 g par jour environ

=> (+/ 10 gr pour 70 Kg)

If pure glycine: approximately 8 to 15 g per day (+/ 10 g for 70 kg / 140 Lb)
https://www.julienvenesson.fr/quels-sont-les-bienfaits-de-la-glycine-en-complement-alimentaire/
https://www.julienvenesson.fr/faut-il-se-supplementer-en-glycine-ou-en-collagene/

Si collagène hydrolysé : 20 gr par jour (If hydrolyzed collagen: 20 gr per day)
https://www.julienvenesson.fr/faut-il-se-supplementer-en-glycine-ou-en-collagene/

Mossy

@wester130 said in Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?:

@Mossy you can add it in instead of glycine

Thank you. Do you have any experience with Threonine? I'm curious of any side effects you may have experienced.

Mossy

@LucH said in Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?:

@Mossy said in Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?:

I assume gelatin powder or straight glycine could replace

Yes, when taking 10 g glycine, you only assimilate 2 g (20 %). (Study given by Haidut)
I'd take the half dose in the shake (5 g powder).

Thank you.

jd_au

Ugh. This vitamin C issue has done my head in. I read amazing stuff from the Linus Pauling crowd about the benefits of high dose vitamin C. People taking 20-30g a day for years, reversing various health issues etc. I also read Nathan Hatch's writings on it. Whilst I don't agree with him on everything, his stuff on Vitamin C was compelling. He advocates for a natural, acerola-based version, acknowledging that many synthetic versions cause issues. But he also suggests aiming for at least a few grams a day, which is hard to do with acerola and stupidly expensive.

Over the years I have tried at least 7 different Vitamin C brands. Regular, cheap ascorbic acid. Scottish Quali-C. Sodium Ascorbate. A non-corn based, tapioca starch version. Two different versions of acerola. They ALL end up giving me wretched side effects. Runny nose, stuffy throat, aching legs, nausea. Some even lead to my throat feeling constricted which was scary. I have serious doubts about the quality of Quali-C, which gave me a blocked nose and made me sound like I had a permanent cold. The best run I had was with sodium ascorbate. I felt amazing on it for 2 weeks but then the side effects came. With acerola, I don't get any side effects on 500mg. But when I pushed to 2 grams as an experiment, I felt AWFUL. Like I'd poisoned myself. And with taking just 500mg, I don't actually feel any improvement at all, and the whole point of my vitamin C experiment was to try to mega dose it to see if it can improve my health.

I'm about ready to give up and I'm so disappointed. I really believe the research, the testimonies. And for 2 short weeks on the sodium ascorbate, I honestly felt the best I had in years. Normal, in fact. I thought I'd finally backed a winner. Nathan Hatch believes vitamin C is so crucial for health and healing, that if you're low, taking other supps is kinda pointless cos your body can't utilise them properly. I have taken aspirin for years and I believe it depletes vitamin C. So i'm a good candidate for taking moderate to high doses, but for the life of me I just can't find a brand that I can tolerate.

There is a C-salts one that is non-corn based and contains no fillers. But they have paired it with zinc, potassium and calcium, and I am not a fan of supplementing things like zinc and calcium - they have a high chance of causing nausea. The tapioca one is the most recent one I've tried - no corn, no silicon dioxide. But sadly it made me feel off right from the jump.

Anyway, ramble over. I envy the people who tolerate Quali-C with no issues. I wish I could join the club but it's not to be.

LucH

@jd_au said:

He advocates for a natural, acerola-based version, acknowledging that many synthetic versions cause issues.

Most sellers lie when manufacturing 500 mg vitamin C from acerola. You've haven't got 500 mg "natural" L-ascorbic acid. They add he half synthetic one.
And when someone wants to buy the synthetic one, he should mind some caveats:
When you buy synthetic vitamin C in powder (L-ascorbic acid), you should check the following information on the certificate of guarantee:

CAS No.: 50-81-7
This is how a molecule is identified, by its CAS No.
CAS = Registration No. with the Chemical Abstracts Service (CAS) database.
Stereochemistry (optical rotation): between 20.5 and 21.5°.
If we have characteristics 1 and 3 mentioned, it's OK. Otherwise, you're polluting your body with 50% harmful substances. And it's even higher according to some sources (12.5% absorbable).
Heavy metals: less than 10 ppm total, and as little mercury as possible, i.e., 0.001 Hg. Never more than 5 ppm per mL, taken individually, per metal.
Tolerance standard for mercury: 1 ppm (part per million), which is a level of 1/1,000,000 or 0.0001%, if I'm converting correctly.

If you buy vitamin C in large quantities, some well-established suppliers in the protein supplement market turn a deaf ear when you ask for a quality certificate. Vertical ranking, in this case.
LucH

wester130

@Mossy threonine is wonderful for dreams

jd_au

@LucH thank you for that. Super helpful. I've emailed one manufacturer to ask whether they put silicon dioxide in theirs. It's not listed in the ingredients, but in Australia where I'm from, by law you don't have to list excipients if they're less than 1% of the total (not sure if that's a global thing). There is one Aussie brand of acerola powder that claims it's 'all natural' and gives 500mg of ascorbic acid per dose, with no added synthetics. I'm a bit skeptical. I might email and ask for their fine print.

Your comment helps explain to me why so many companies selling supposedly 'clean', 'pure' vitamin C products still cause a bad reaction.

I imagine most companies aren't keen on providing the fine print when asked. Will see how I go.