Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat

Mossy

@CrumblingCookie said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:

I wouldn't know! I dislike and distrust liver so have gone for the isolated substances and followed them up with testing of serum (free) copper, ceruloplasmin and retinol. IIRC there was one guy writing on the old RPF that he had eaten lots of liver regularly and his lack of copper was surprisingly unaffected until he started supplements.

Ok, I can appreciate that perspective. I don't like the taste of liver. I take it purely as a medicine. I only eat 2 oz at a time now, because I dislike the taste so much. When I used to eat 4 oz, I could feel the positive effect it had on me. Sometimes with the 2 oz, but not as much.

LucH

@Mossy said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:

you obviously don't think the vitamin A from liver is enough or effective in the same manner as supplementing vitamin A?

No. Whenever I can eat 2 chicken livers (broth) it's fine. Not always available.
No need to supplement if I eat liver.
Apart case: Infection, higher ratio and more D3.

CrumblingCookie

@Mauritio Any new ventures into this? I've seen in your other threads that you've been harbouring fungal suspicions for a very long time.
Your mentioning of molybdenum to potentially counter any initial fungal "die-off" symptoms made me wonder if those dogmatic followers on the LTF are also actually onto chronically persisting fungi with all their EGCG megadosing. Thoughts?
Mo doesn't seem to help me.

EGCG absorption is quite low and it's highest on an empty stomach after fasting.
So I'm moving the complete daily dose to the morning instead of having it split up, so it can reach at least inhibitory concentrations in the body. 1050mg EGCG pd.

Have also started the horseradish and nasturtium powders throughout the day. 3,000mg nasturtium and 1,200mg horseradish pd.
When I open the capsules, however, they don't taste very pungent at all in my mouth. Only very slightly and super-transiently. Gone after 10 seconds. 1.2g of ground, dried horseradish also sounds very little. I probably should be taking four times as much per day, as 1.2g would only be about 8g of fresh horseradish. I didn't get a brand product because of the nasty tablet fillers so there could be further variances in the raw products and drying process.
Perhaps an appropriate amount of benzyl-ITC could indeed be better?

Peak serum levels of FCy (5-FC) at my 95mg/kg dosage are still unknown to me after two weeks of administration - which really isn't ideal. Hopefully they're high enough to be therapeutic.
So far there's not a hint of hematological / bone marrow suppression. CBC is as fine as always.

In summary:
I'll continue now every day with FCy 95mg/kg, EGCG 1050mg, dried nasturtium/horseradish 10g/4g, UDCA 500mg. And the aforementioned probiotics, few B vitamins, colloidal silicium.
And I'm now going to start artichoke leaf extract, equivalent to 4g - 12g of raw artichoke leaf, 3-4x daily. Predominantly for increasing hepatic bile synthesis and output. If it inhibits and decreases hepatic cholesterol synthesis and storage that should theoretically assist.
I had the oregano essential oil and garlic slip. Either my initial garlic bulbs were very weak and the Chinese garlic bulbs I have now are hugely more pungent or I have grown tired of it, or both.

sunsunsun

@Mossy chicken liver is actually scrumptious when prepared via my world-famous bbq baked bean and chicken liver recipe. I dont exactly like eating fried liver and onions plain other than on the rarest occasions, and even then I have to chase it with mashed potatoes, ketchup, and an ice cold Coca Cola, but the chicken liver and bbq baked beans recipe I have is fire af on buttered bread, lmk if u want it, it's easy to make with canned baked beans too. it actually gets better in the fridge a day or two after cooking it too.

alfredoolivas

@sunsunsun let us know

Mauritio

@CrumblingCookie said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:

Any new ventures into this?

Yes, I'm trying TUDCA atm.

It's interesting that some bile acids have pro-microbial effects (primary BAs) and some have anti microbial effects (secondary BAs).
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39204302/

TCA for example enables fungal infections.

"...TCA through drinking water is sufficient to induce colonization and dissemination of CA in wild-type and immunosuppressed mice."
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8708873/

While LCA and DCA have anti-fungal effects in a variety of ways. (TUDCA should have a similar effect)

"Interestingly, LCA and DCA also significantly inhibited the germ tube, hyphae and biofilm formation in C. albicans. "
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29648597/

The main reason for taking tudca is to thin the bile and support the liver - gallbladder axis. That seems to be the bottleneck for me.
Maybe working on the affected organs is more fruitful than trying to eradicate the fungus? Not sure.
And since TUDCA should have significant direct anti-fungal effects on top of that, it could be suitable candidate in my case.

CrumblingCookie

@Mauritio It's difficult to do without cholic acid as the most crucial primary bile acid... the conjugated bile acids are protective to fungi yet the unconjugated CA allegedly isn't.
Perhaps this requires to temporarily dial back on any supplemental glycine and taurine in case of fungal issues?
UDCA and TUDCA appear to be rather neutral towards fungi from what I can find.

I'had looked into therapeutic DCA use as well but it's also strongly cytotoxic to human cells. Or perhaps I'm not remembering correctly and endogenous DCA abundance is always being mixed up with a concurrent abundance of the more harmful LCA.
Any way, DCA is tough to get if. I couldn't. Maybe straight from Asia. Supplementation was propagated by a medical practitioner from Eastern Europe who went on to sell the raw powder directly but eventually even that has become suppressed. It used to be available as a pharmaceutical raw material but that has been utterly stomped whilst at the same time it's still classified as a pharmaceutical so it's illegal to import.
Still available for lab and research use, however, if you can buy it via a certifiably appropriate company.
Obfuscations and intransparancies everywhere one goes or looks.

Peak serum levels of FCy/5-FC came in just under the therapeutic optimum.
Therefore raising it to 118mg/kg BW for the last week which by linear extrapolation should push peak serum levels up to a solid 62 µg/mL.

@Mauritio said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:

The main reason for taking tudca is to thin the bile and support the liver - gallbladder axis. That seems to be the bottleneck for me.

In the past I had notable success with that, but not anymore. A mild version of the "liver/gallbladder cleanse" olive oil/grapefruit juice blend but without the Mg-SO4 really unclogged things and whilst gentian and taraxacum are the basic cholagogics I believe tincture of gold coin grass aka Lysimachia aka Jin Qian Cao or glechoma hederacea was a profoundly effective addition back then, too.