Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat
-
@Mossy said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:
you obviously don't think the vitamin A from liver is enough or effective in the same manner as supplementing vitamin A?
No. Whenever I can eat 2 chicken livers (broth) it's fine. Not always available.
No need to supplement if I eat liver.
Apart case: Infection, higher ratio and more D3. -
@Mauritio Any new ventures into this? I've seen in your other threads that you've been harbouring fungal suspicions for a very long time.
Your mentioning of molybdenum to potentially counter any initial fungal "die-off" symptoms made me wonder if those dogmatic followers on the LTF are also actually onto chronically persisting fungi with all their EGCG megadosing. Thoughts?
Mo doesn't seem to help me.
EGCG absorption is quite low and it's highest on an empty stomach after fasting.
So I'm moving the complete daily dose to the morning instead of having it split up, so it can reach at least inhibitory concentrations in the body. 1050mg EGCG pd.Have also started the horseradish and nasturtium powders throughout the day. 3,000mg nasturtium and 1,200mg horseradish pd.
When I open the capsules, however, they don't taste very pungent at all in my mouth. Only very slightly and super-transiently. Gone after 10 seconds. 1.2g of ground, dried horseradish also sounds very little. I probably should be taking four times as much per day, as 1.2g would only be about 8g of fresh horseradish. I didn't get a brand product because of the nasty tablet fillers so there could be further variances in the raw products and drying process.
Perhaps an appropriate amount of benzyl-ITC could indeed be better?Peak serum levels of FCy (5-FC) at my 95mg/kg dosage are still unknown to me after two weeks of administration - which really isn't ideal. Hopefully they're high enough to be therapeutic.
So far there's not a hint of hematological / bone marrow suppression. CBC is as fine as always.In summary:
I'll continue now every day with FCy 95mg/kg, EGCG 1050mg, dried nasturtium/horseradish 10g/4g, UDCA 500mg. And the aforementioned probiotics, few B vitamins, colloidal silicium.
And I'm now going to start artichoke leaf extract, equivalent to 4g - 12g of raw artichoke leaf, 3-4x daily. Predominantly for increasing hepatic bile synthesis and output. If it inhibits and decreases hepatic cholesterol synthesis and storage that should theoretically assist.
I had the oregano essential oil and garlic slip. Either my initial garlic bulbs were very weak and the Chinese garlic bulbs I have now are hugely more pungent or I have grown tired of it, or both. -
@Mossy chicken liver is actually scrumptious when prepared via my world-famous bbq baked bean and chicken liver recipe. I dont exactly like eating fried liver and onions plain other than on the rarest occasions, and even then I have to chase it with mashed potatoes, ketchup, and an ice cold Coca Cola, but the chicken liver and bbq baked beans recipe I have is fire af on buttered bread, lmk if u want it, it's easy to make with canned baked beans too. it actually gets better in the fridge a day or two after cooking it too.
-
@sunsunsun let us know
-
C CrumblingCookie referenced this topic
-
@CrumblingCookie said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:
Any new ventures into this?
Yes, I'm trying TUDCA atm.
It's interesting that some bile acids have pro-microbial effects (primary BAs) and some have anti microbial effects (secondary BAs).
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39204302/TCA for example enables fungal infections.
"...TCA through drinking water is sufficient to induce colonization and dissemination of CA in wild-type and immunosuppressed mice."
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8708873/While LCA and DCA have anti-fungal effects in a variety of ways. (TUDCA should have a similar effect)
"Interestingly, LCA and DCA also significantly inhibited the germ tube, hyphae and biofilm formation in C. albicans. "
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29648597/
The main reason for taking tudca is to thin the bile and support the liver - gallbladder axis. That seems to be the bottleneck for me.
Maybe working on the affected organs is more fruitful than trying to eradicate the fungus? Not sure.
And since TUDCA should have significant direct anti-fungal effects on top of that, it could be suitable candidate in my case. -
@Mauritio It's difficult to do without cholic acid as the most crucial primary bile acid... the conjugated bile acids are protective to fungi yet the unconjugated CA allegedly isn't.
Perhaps this requires to temporarily dial back on any supplemental glycine and taurine in case of fungal issues?
UDCA and TUDCA appear to be rather neutral towards fungi from what I can find.I'had looked into therapeutic DCA use as well but it's also strongly cytotoxic to human cells. Or perhaps I'm not remembering correctly and endogenous DCA abundance is always being mixed up with a concurrent abundance of the more harmful LCA.
Any way, DCA is tough to get if. I couldn't. Maybe straight from Asia. Supplementation was propagated by a medical practitioner from Eastern Europe who went on to sell the raw powder directly but eventually even that has become suppressed. It used to be available as a pharmaceutical raw material but that has been utterly stomped whilst at the same time it's still classified as a pharmaceutical so it's illegal to import.
Still available for lab and research use, however, if you can buy it via a certifiably appropriate company.
Obfuscations and intransparancies everywhere one goes or looks.Peak serum levels of FCy/5-FC came in just under the therapeutic optimum.
Therefore raising it to 118mg/kg BW for the last week which by linear extrapolation should push peak serum levels up to a solid 62 µg/mL.@Mauritio said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:
The main reason for taking tudca is to thin the bile and support the liver - gallbladder axis. That seems to be the bottleneck for me.
In the past I had notable success with that, but not anymore. A mild version of the "liver/gallbladder cleanse" olive oil/grapefruit juice blend but without the Mg-SO4 really unclogged things and whilst gentian and taraxacum are the basic cholagogics I believe tincture of gold coin grass aka Lysimachia aka Jin Qian Cao or glechoma hederacea was a profoundly effective addition back then, too.
-
@CrumblingCookie have you tried high dose riboflavin , and niacinamide?
also there’s a new antifungal out called brexafemme , that is the brand name. the drug name starts with an i.
-
@sunsunsun
Hi. Yes I had repeatedly tried high-dose riboflavin, up to gram dosing.
Also tried niacinamide throughout the day in mid or in high dosing.Had read your old thread on the RPF again on riboflavin activity against Candida. Unfortunately, there are crucial caveats to it: That only applies to C. albicans.
C. glabrata, however, thrives on it. Throwing B2 or B1 or B3 at C. glabrata acts as a strong growth stimulant. C. glabrata (and Aspergillus spp.), in stark contrast to C. albicans, even feeds on bismuth subsalicylate (Pepto Bismol) / subcitrate to grow its biomass!I appreciate your hint to oral ibrexafungerp (SCY-078)! A totally new class of antifungal I hadn't even read before which directly inhibits fungal 1,3-beta-D-glucan. It sounds highly promising also for systemic action. US licencing only for vulvovaginal candidosis so far. Fosmanogepix is also another first-in-class with orphan drug status.
Both are strongly lipophilic, however. Haven't read much further into them yet.I have two more days of flucytosine ahead of me, then totalling 24 days.
Together with EGCG appears to be the best combination for liver and biliary tract access.
I'm still affected by the weak and woozy head but less consciously aware of it. Maybe I grew accustomed, maybe it lessened a little bit. It did not increase over time nor with the FCy dose increase, and the initially associated rise in depression faded. Overall making me think it's due to antifungal effects at work beyond a perhaps baseline toxicity.Artichoke leaf extract hugely increases bile synthesis and release any may be a long-term way option along with intraluminal antifungals. However, ALE also hugely increases MMC, i.e. transit speed. Just as coffee, or nicotine, or cholinergics, or anything prometabolic like sunshine, B2, B1, B6, B5, B3, Mg, K, betaine/TMG, menaquinone do.
This is hugely confounding. I'm likely to have some sort of profound autonomous nervous system damage with dumping syndrome probably as a result of multiple severe GI infections. I.e. the nerve endings and regulation of my intestines are shot and fried. Unable to heal by themselves. The harm is comparable to the neuropathy in late-stage diabetics. It does not only occur after GI surgeries as Mickey Mouse clinicians make-belief.Interesting that cannabis (pain medication) is mentioned as an exacerbating trigger.
SST/octreotide may help but I cannot get hold of that.
BPC-157 may actually cure:Stable Gastric Pentadecapeptide BPC 157 May Recover Brain-Gut Axis and Gut-Brain Axis Function, 2023
-
@CrumblingCookie bpc actually works really well for intestinal issues. you dont need the arginate salt either, the commonly available acetate one is fine. the marketing on the former makes it sound otherwise. i actually looked into buying the patent for the arg form but it became clear they were just trying to offload the intellectual property because they realized there isnt really a market incentive for it
if you find ibrexafungerp somewhere id like to know. it’s like $150 a pill from GSK with a doctor’s prescription and without insurance coverage. the company that invented it actually probably sold it for too cheap imo. by what it sounds like it can probably replace fluconazole as an otc single pill form that are sold for women’s yeast infections at various drug stores.
-
UDCA and TUDCA appear to be rather neutral towards fungi from what I can find.
I thought TUDCA was helpful on the basis of it being a secondary bile acid. But I also didn't find studies on that...
I've been taking TUDCA for about 10 days. And my body seems to get used to it. In the beginning it lead to loss of water retention, fuller muscles, better liver function and even a bile dump. Now it doesn't seem to do much anymore. Not sure why. But I often have the experience that I develope tolerance to things rather quickly.
I'had looked into therapeutic DCA use as well but it's also strongly cytotoxic to human cells. Or perhaps I'm not remembering correctly and endogenous DCA abundance is always being mixed up with a concurrent abundance of the more harmful LCA.
Yes I think it's also cancer inducing. And hard to find. Not even sure how you got the UDCA. Do you think there's any reason to take UDCA if I've tried TUDCA?
gentian and taraxacum are the basic cholagogics I believe tincture of gold coin grass aka Lysimachia aka Jin Qian Cao or glechoma hederacea was a profoundly effective addition back then, too.
Interesting I will check those out.
Have you guys tried serrapeptase or allicin?
The Biofilm buster + anti fungal protocols are quite popular on reddit and such forums. I do notice anti fungal effects from nattokinase. -
Kestose could be an interesting candidate. It increases deconjugated bile acids and increases bacteria that deconjugate bile acids.
Also increases 5aR in another study."...the levels of deconjugated bile acids, which are involved in the regulation of lipid synthesis, were increased. Furthermore, the 1-kestose intake altered the gut microbiota in the cecum, leading to an increase in the abundance of specific bacteria, such as Bifidobacterium, which are involved in the deconjugation of conjugated bile acids."
It strongly increases Cholic acid and other bile acids .
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login