Carbon Monoxide Poisoning from Heme Oxygenase Breaking Down Hemoglobin
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@CrumblingCookie said in Carbon Monoxide Poisoning from Heme Oxygenase Breaking Down Hemoglobin:
@yerrag said:
After breakfast I'll decide on the dosage I likely would do a 3 x 20mg for the day.
The wanted benefits should be felt very quickly, IIRC within 1 hour. If 20mg in the morning works well, maybe 15mg 8hrs later is also already enough. I think MB is a very powerful and important instrument acutely.
Yes. Good thinking.
I don't think it generally changes chronic conditions once it's out of the system again (after a few days). Just don't take it without carbs or glucose / on an empty stomach to avoid a glucose drop.
If the source of carbon monoxide (dead red blood cells worked on by heme oxygenase) is depleted, there would be no chronic condition to deal with.
I also just remembered that Methylene Blue as a phenothiazine complexes with B2 and leads to higher excretion so it's important to not become deplete in B2 while "binging" MB. Vitamin B2 also acts as an important redox agent.
Thanks, I'll increase my B2 intake just to be sure.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag said in Carbon Monoxide Poisoning from Heme Oxygenase Breaking Down Hemoglobin:
@CrumblingCookie said in Carbon Monoxide Poisoning from Heme Oxygenase Breaking Down Hemoglobin:
@yerrag said:
After breakfast I'll decide on the dosage I likely would do a 3 x 20mg for the day.
The wanted benefits should be felt very quickly, IIRC within 1 hour. If 20mg in the morning works well, maybe 15mg 8hrs later is also already enough. I think MB is a very powerful and important instrument acutely.
Yes. Good thinking.
I don't think it generally changes chronic conditions once it's out of the system again (after a few days). Just don't take it without carbs or glucose / on an empty stomach to avoid a glucose drop.
If the source of carbon monoxide (dead red blood cells worked on by heme oxygenase) is depleted, there would be no chronic condition to deal with.
I also just remembered that Methylene Blue as a phenothiazine complexes with B2 and leads to higher excretion so it's important to not become deplete in B2 while "binging" MB. Vitamin B2 also acts as an important redox agent.
Thanks, I'll increase my B2 intake just to be sure.
The past two days I have become bloaty and serotogenic and couldn't sleep.
The first day on mb I got the dose right, at 3x16mg. I doubled it the next day to 3x32mb, which was a mistake as 70mb/day was my limit. And I had made a boo boo in my calculations.
Yesterday I felt terrible and ate little. Too much and the medicine becomes the disease itself.
Last night I chewed on a teaspoon of fennel seeds, and I caught some needed sleep, though short as it is.
I hope the meth blue wears out quickly. Will take a few days of rest to recover and the resume my original plan of detoxing the carbon monoxide, which may or may not have exhausted its source of dead read blood cells taking up space in my lymph.
When all is done, the CO will be gone and my breathing not be strained, and the free iron that uses to be in my hemoglobin would be sequestered chelated, and excreted. This will in turn lower my blood pressure.
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@yerrag
Sorry to read that you crashed into excessive MB MAO-inhibition and agitation, anxiety.
3x32mg = 96mg of MB in one day after already 48mg the day before and some the day before is really much.
It'd be easiest if some of the caused anxiety and insomnia were caused by low-BG and some dextrose could help.
I know fresh ginger, ginger juice or oily ginger extract are anti-serotonine at high doses. They'll block CYP3A4, though, so not a sustainable thing to do.Not sure whether your CO hypothesis holds up after a trial with this much MB. Do you think your current extrapolations are becoming too far stretched? Perhaps very limited in their practical extent, even if theoretically true?
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@CrumblingCookie said in Carbon Monoxide Poisoning from Heme Oxygenase Breaking Down Hemoglobin:
@yerrag
Sorry to read that you crashed into excessive MB MAO-inhibition and agitation, anxiety.
3x32mg = 96mg of MB in one day after already 48mg the day before and some the day before is really much.Yes, two days since the 96mb day I get very hyper that lying down causes a hyper reaction. I'm hoping I could use the Cypro which I manage to find tucked between a nook and cranny. My sis gave me chamomile tea to calm me down
There's always a first time.
It'd be easiest if some of the caused anxiety and insomnia were caused by low-BG and some dextrose could help.
Not with me. My.blood sugar is top notch.
I know fresh ginger, ginger juice or oily ginger extract are anti-serotonine at high doses. They'll block CYP3A4, though, so not a sustainable thing to do.
Thanks. I hope I don't have to use them.
Not sure whether your CO hypothesis holds up after a trial with this much MB. Do you think your current extrapolations are becoming too far stretched? Perhaps very limited in their practical extent, even if theoretically true?
Except for the MB snafu, the theory is sound. It's no coincidence that my breathing became short and my neutrophils and macrophages got so active after I used the zapper with the lymphatics program chosen.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
I think that my struggles with sleeping will never go away unless my lungs are cleared of waterlogging or edema. That the edema is happening in the lungs does not mean it is confined to the lungs, as it can happen in the ankles and in the waist, but it is significant when it happens in the lungs especially that it powers the heart greatly and the lack of oxygen as a substrate has a great deal to do with heart failure.
Moreover, the lungs being waterlogged keeps it from deactivating serotonin, and when this happens, no amount of effort on my part is going to allow me to sleep. Already 3 days in without sleep, I take this issue as my job 1 before anything else.
Last night, I have no choice but to get back to mb treatment. I use s familiar dose at 16mb at midnight and spent the whole night monitoring for changes in spO2. It confirmed that mb did indeed increase my spO2 values greatly, confirming mb as an effective treatment.
However, despite using 3 drops of Cypro, I could not get myself to sleep. This means I have to find an mb dosage and frequency that would eventually result in dry lungs. Dry lungs would ensure serotonin is deactivated by the lungs. Not only can I sleep well, but my heart will pump much better.
Good that I have a tool to see if my lungs are dry- personal ECG that can graphically show a tall QRS wave.
I may be conservative and go with 3 x 16mg mb a day for now, and if I don't see much headway will increase dosage upward.
It's too bad I don't have the benefit of using doctors or even members here with the experience and insight I so need, but I will manage. It has happened to me before, so I am no stranger to it.
Thanks for your comments, advice, and support.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
No sooner than I closed the previous post did I began to question my approach.
Considering I had not slept for 3 days, and that I survived the 3 x 32mg dosing for a day, and that the recommended treatment is a one time intake of 50mg or even 70mg (based on 1mg/kg),
why am I holding off on using a one time dose when it has already been used and recommended?
So, at lunchtime, I will take a 50mg dose, while accounting for the 16mg I tookat midnight.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
I don't know if it will be useful to you (you've already been there and done that), but TonEBP/NFAT5 activation could help deactivating HO-1:
We found that TonEBP is a potent suppressor of HO-1 in human and mouse macrophages.
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/immunology/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2019.00850/full
The FXR might help too to rebuild heme:
FXR orchestrates the expression of multiple heme biosynthetic enzymes. Finally, human HepG2 cells and primary human hepatocytes treated with obeticholic acid, showed increased expression of several heme biosynthetic genes.
(In the liver...)
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I took in 50mg in100ml water yesterday in one sitting at 1pm. Gladly, nothing terrible happened. Expert for it causing my urine to trickle and mu urination became negligible. Fecal matter in small amounts.
My appetite was suppressed and desire to drink inhibited.
Because I had taken mb 2 and 3 days before I took this one time dose, I could not tell how different I would feel had I just taken this one-time dose.
But taking it in one dose seems the right way, as the strength seemed to have allowed mb to act as a diuretic, as I started to feel the effect it had on acting to dry the lungs. Still, my bloat remains, and my weight even increased by 3 kg I am hoping the diuretic effect would happen eventually. Will it take as long as a week?
The best part is my hardness of breath is gone, which one would expect when the lungs is drier. But not totally dry, as I could not see confirmation in my ECG's QRS wave, which is still depressed.
Will keep you posted.
Oh yes, I slept well last night. The drier lungs made the lungs get back it's work as a deactivate of serotonin.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
I could have gone at it at 1mg/kg of my bodyweight at 70 mg. Oh well.
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@NNight said in Carbon Monoxide Poisoning from Heme Oxygenase Breaking Down Hemoglobin:
I don't know if it will be useful to you (you've already been there and done that), but TonEBP/NFAT5 activation could help deactivating HO-1:
We found that TonEBP is a potent suppressor of HO-1 in human and mouse macrophages.
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/immunology/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2019.00850/full
The FXR might help too to rebuild heme:
FXR orchestrates the expression of multiple heme biosynthetic enzymes. Finally, human HepG2 cells and primary human hepatocytes treated with obeticholic acid, showed increased expression of several heme biosynthetic genes.
(In the liver...)
Seems like the directions would be complicated, or materials not easily available. But thanks.
