Random, interesting studies
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@LucH
Yes, do not stimulate the mitophagy branch of autophagy by xeno-substances if the underlying condition is one of innate immune requirements.
But as you point out on the other hand, if such immune activity were to be co-caused by circulation of LPS (yet without bacterial translocation! is that possible ?) then the notorious carrot salad or whatever helps seal the GI barrier would automatically improve systemic mitophagy and uncoupling and metabolism by their decrease of invading LPS.
Yet again in conditions of increased innate immune requirements but of little IFN-y because of intracellularly hiding pathogens (and their downstream counteraction of IFN-y) like chlamydophila or mycobacteria the therapeutic success hugely benefits from stimulation with IFN-y. Hugely! There are studies on that. Such conditions, when latent, contradict excess fat loss and forbid the use of any such substances which promote mitophagy or uncoupling. -
@CrumblingCookie said in Random, interesting studies:
et again in conditions of increased innate immune requirements but of little IFN-y because of intracellularly hiding pathogens like clamydophila or mycobacteria the therapeutic success hugely benefits from stimulation with IFN-y. Hugely!
OK, thanks for the detailed explanation.
Now, if I can abuse (feel free to ignore it if you haven't time to ...)
Above 55 yrs old, nearly every body has brown spots on the skin, of a certain thickness. => HPV.
If you want to get rid of them, you kill them by cryogenics (frozen) or with appropriate essential oils (12 weeks!). In both cases, there will be bacterial residue (LPS). The same thing happens when the immune system gets rid of a cold or the flu...
So, the question is: How to help without stimulating the immune system. Do not answer because I already know the answer. Do not override the immune response with xeno-molecules, but help / assist the system, on an indirectly manner. Said on a different manner: Do not use the hammer when you can assist the body. But there is much more to say ... Not here, OK. Interpretation in the right direction? -
@LucH : Instructions unclear.
feel free to ignore
So, the question is:
Do not answer because I already know the answer.
much more to say ... Not here, OK.
Interpretation in the right direction? -
Very interesting new study.
FGF21 overexpression prevents obesity, liver steatosis, and loss of lean mass in gerobese mice fed a HFD. The muscle preserving effect is interesting. Might be the reason people dont loose muscle when doing methionine restriction."... these mice lived up to 3.3 years, resisted weight gain, improved insulin sensitivity, and showed reduced liver steatosis. "
The mice lived about 25% longer than controls. Just from overexpressing FGF21. Pretty impressive. So life- and healthspan was increased.
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Here's a study showing N-methylserotonin lowers adiposity and increases liver glycogen.
It has similar effects as serotonin hence im surprised that it has these beneficial effects.
It does seem to activate the serotonin auto receptor (which lowers serotonin) and several other serotonin receptors and it also works like an SSRI.
In the above study it increases transit speed. Maybe that was enough to help with metabolism.Anybody have any idea why that happened?
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Agar liberated serotonin and histamine in a normal study.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00537358 -
Frankincense
A Boswell if acid from frankincense increased ATP, PHD, SOD , Catalase and AMPK amongst others in this animal model
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10097356/frankincense (Boswellia serrata) oil increased circulating thyroid hormones (T3 and T4), but also GH
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PMC10044135/Boswellia serrata gum extract activates AMPK signaling, reduces mTOR activity, and protects dopaminergic neurons from rotenone-induced neurotoxicity in mice, suggesting a neuroprotective mechanism via energy- and autophagy-related pathways
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35804280/Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio I’m using Boswellia every night before bed with baking soda and glycine water. Most consistent vivid dreams I’ve had as an adult!
It’s a COX enzyme blocker, very good anti inflammatory for me. -
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@LucH said in Random, interesting studies:
@dapose said in Random, interesting studies:
with baking soda
How much?
1/2 teaspoon baking soda.
1/4 tsp glycine
Boswell extract 500mg -
@dapose said in Random, interesting studies:
1/2 teaspoon baking soda.
Comment (LucH)
Boswellic acid from boswella serrata is fine / effective against:
PGE (prostaglandins): Cox2, 5-Lox
Cytokins : IL-1β, IL-6, TNF-alpha
NF-kB
NO
NB : Other possibilities on this link :
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t266-substances-naturelles-anti-douleur-tableau
=> Your choice is a very good one against inflammation. Good tactics. But I see one possible problem.
Baking soda at a 2 g level is effective to calm down an over-reaction of the immune system, as well for allergies (histamine). 48 H delay.
However, you should be conscious of one side effect: Na bicarbonate is able to re-polarize cells: It has an effect on the Treg system. Regulatory T-cells (Tregs) play a crucial role in maintaining immune homeostasis, ensuring a balanced immune response. A balance between 2 modes.
See a developed answer after the “useful links” and my request to AI to clarify the explanation.Useful links
*) Comprendre la cascade inflammatoire (understanding the inflammatory cascade)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1137-comprendre-la-cascade-inflammatoire
Inhibition of pro-inflammatory factors (TNF-α and IL-1β) in cases of joint problems.
Understanding the inflammatory cascade (deleterious effects of the arachidonic acid cascade) (COX-1 & 2, 5-LOX).
Transition between two painkillers (alternating substances and allowing the liver and kidneys to recover. Congested CYP450 detox pathways).
*) Bicarbonate et inflammation – Mise au point * (focus on possible side-effects)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1325-bicarbonate-et-inflammation-mise-au-point#14649
See this post :
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1325-bicarbonate-et-inflammation-mise-au-point#14653
Bicarbonate restores normal Treg function so that these cells can do their job(s) and temper self-reactive T cells.
There is a rebalancing needed from M1 to M2 that occurs after consuming 2 grams of bicarbonate.
Indeed, we should alternate between the M1/inhibitory mode, geared towards host defense, and the M2/healing mode, geared towards repairing and replacing damaged tissues. To put it simply, remaining in the M1/inhibitory mode for too long depresses the immune system (defense against infections, contamination, and viruses). If you remain in the M2/repair and proliferation mode for too long, be careful of cellular excitation in the latter case (cancer).
Excerpt1:
In a (super-simplified) model, Th1/Th2 and M1/M2 ratios (M = macrophages) can thus be used as indicators to determine whether or not the immune system is in M1/inhibitory mode, oriented towards host defense, or in M2/healing mode, oriented towards repairing and replacing lost or defective tissues in order to maintain host homeostasis. (Mills 2015a).
Excerpt 2 :
Repolarization into the M2 phenotype.
Modulating macrophage activation to mitigate inflammatory diseases by promoting the repolarization of inflammatory macrophages (M1) into anti-inflammatory macrophages (M2) is of great interest for homeostasis.
*) Journal de suivi (cure de bicarbonate de sodium) (log showing the effects of my cure)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1313-bicarbonate-contre-l-inflammation?highlight=bicarbonate
x
Request for AI
Verify the accuracy of the "shortcut" used to explain the relevance of alternating.
NB: Avoid the usual warnings and digressions about the potential dangers and the advice to consult a doctor. We agree. Let's focus on clarity, to make the forum reader understand that the two polarization modes must be alternated when undergoing treatment. Not continuously.
I repeat: The answer should focus on the importance of alternating, and not remaining too long in the healing/stimulating (anti-inflammatory) mode.Answer from AI (gemini 3)
Here is an analysis of the biological relevance of alternating between M1 and M2 phenotypes to validate the accuracy of your approach:- Functional Duality: Defense vs. Repair
The shortcut used is scientifically sound. The immune system relies on a dynamic balance between two states of macrophage (and by extension, T cell) polarization:
- The M1 mode (Pro-inflammatory / Defense): This is the "fight mode." It is essential for eliminating pathogens (viruses, bacteria) and destroying abnormal cells. A system artificially kept out of this mode by chronic anti-inflammatory substances becomes vulnerable to infections.
- The M2 mode (Anti-inflammatory / Repair): This is the "repair mode." It calms inflammation and rebuilds tissues. This is the desired effect of sodium bicarbonate and Boswellia.
- The Risk of "All M2" (Continuous Healing Mode)
Your warning about prolonged maintenance in M2 mode is sound. In the scientific literature, excessive or permanent M2 polarization poses two major problems:
- Immunosuppression: M2 mode disables cytotoxicity mechanisms. If the body is prevented from periodically returning to M1 mode, its natural "clean-up" capacity is hampered.
- Cell Proliferation: M2 mode promotes angiogenesis (blood vessel formation) and tissue growth for healing. However, this is precisely the environment that tumor cells hijack to grow undetected by the immune system. These are called TAMs (Tumor-Associated Macrophages), which are predominantly of the M2 phenotype.
- The Relevance of Alternating (Homeostasis)
The idea of alternating reflects homeostasis. Inflammation is not a "mistake" of the body, but a cleansing process that must be resolved.
- The natural cycle: Inflammation (M1) → Resolution/Cure (M2) → Return to alertness (M1).
- The benefit of the break: Stopping the sodium bicarbonate treatment allows the system to "re-test" its reactivity. If one remains in M2 mode continuously, there is a risk of shifting from an inflammatory condition to a state of immune deficiency or an environment too favorable to cell proliferation.
Summary
The shortcut is accurate and relevant. To explain this to readers:- Bicarbonate repolarizes towards M2, which extinguishes the fire of inflammation.
- Alternating between these modes is vital because M1 mode is your "police" (defense) and M2 mode is your "mechanic" (repair).
- Trying to suppress excitation (M1) permanently prevents the police from patrolling, leaving the door open to intruders (infections) and cellular dysfunction (proliferation).
Conclusion: The treatment should be seen as a "reset" tool, not as a permanent state. Alternating between these modes ensures that the immune system remains flexible, responsive, and able to switch from one mode to the other according to the body's actual needs.
- Functional Duality: Defense vs. Repair
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Low-grade metabolic acidosis as a driver of chronic disease: a 21st century public health crisis, 2021
This one is the most concise overview on bicarbonate and acid-base balance I have got to see.
•Why do humans accumulate acid in the body?
•Where does dietary acid come from?
•Box 1. Ways to test for low-grade metabolic acidosis
•Four main mechanisms that compensate for chronic latent metabolic acidosis
•Box 2. The harms of low-grade metabolic acidosis
•Figure :1
•SummaryAlso, so many people only dabble with some sodium bicarbonate here and there, but in sports science it has been well proven that an HCO3- plasma increase of about 5mmol/L will substantially improve stamina and extension of peak performance.
The way to achieve such an increase is 225mg/kg BW NaHCO3 if it's enteric-coated, or 300mg if not.
That's a profound ~20g of NaHCO3 per day at a single time. Instead of the 1-5g rookie numbers so commonly making their round.
Obviously such a 20g dose contains about 6g of Na. It's ought to be better to make KHCO3 and or Ca/Mg carbonates dominate for long-term daily use. *****
The enterically-coated is superior in that it's essentially absent of side effects:Serial intake over more than one day even increases anaerobic metabolic capacity per se:
And of possible(likely!) interest to everyone with digestion issues, SIBO, malabsorption etc. are
the crucial findings that pancreatic bicarbonate secretion is directly dependent (and proportional to iirc) on plasma bicarbonate levels.A single, full-on pancreatic secretion makes use of ~13mmol HCO3- (equivalent to 1g NaHCO3) and lowers the plasma bicarbonate concentration by a substantial 1-5mmol/L.
Secretin-induced plasma bicarbonate decrease as a simple indicator of exocrine pancreatic function
And for those who lack pancreatic enzyme secretion, who are required to take them exogenously,
or also for those with sufficient pancreatic enzymes but nevertheless lack of digestive power because of their failing enzyme activity:
Addition of bicarbonate (670mg, rather conservative) with pancreatic enzymes to a test meal is able to increase fat absorption by up to ~3 times in chronic pancreatitis:
° Replacing the sodium bicarbonate in parts with KHCO3, MgO or MgCO3 and CaCO3: Lets do some basic maths.
•500mg MgCO3 (160mg Mg) would replace the buffering capacity of 833mg NaHCO3. Some peeps can easily take twice that per day, i.e 1000mg MgCO3 (320mg Mg), replacing 1666mg NaHCO3.
•500mg MgO (300mg Mg) would replace 875mg NaHCO3.
•500mg CaCO3 (200mg Ca) would replace 417mg NaHCO3. But an appropriate daily amount could be ~3x (or 4-5x) this, i.e. 1500mg CaCO3 (600mg Ca), replacing 1250mg NaHCO3.1500mg CaCO3 (600mg Ca) and 1000mg MgCO3 (320mg Mg) per day would therefore replace the buffering capacity of just 2.9g of sodium bicarbonate. Which is 34.5 mEq.
Which looks like a solid base level on paper for the long term but still lacks the punch to make up for another 17g of NaHCO3.Could we take 1g of NaHCO3 (about 274mg Na) and KHCO3 for the rest, i.e. 19g KHCO3 (about 7420mg K)?
Just make sure we still get sufficient dietary chloride.
Although, if taken over the long term I can't believe we'd really need / benefit from such extra 238 mEq from 20g NaHCO3. It seems waaaay too generous when looking at the balance from study at the top. even when considering a grain- or cheese- and protein-rich ketogenic diet.If we cut that down to 1g NaHCO3 (274mg Na), 10g KHCO3 (3900mg K), 1.5g CaCO3, 1g MgCO3,
that would be the equivalent of 15.7g sodium bicarbonate (187mEq).
That still looks generous but may be well suited to buffer extra lactate in high-intensity sports without adaptation to large sodium doses or the intermittent sodium-induced water retention ping-pong on the day after.
Seriously, there should be more studies on long-term dose finding.
The max dose long-term I could find was ~6g/day NaHCO3 in kidney patients: Which works out very well and to much benefit.
However, I'm thinking that's probably the range of dose which many people could benefit from long before they proceed to kidney damage, sarcopenia, osteoporosis, diabetes etc. -
In an effort to reduce cost, do you feel there is a way to avoid negative side effects with baking soda, versus buying the more expensive enteric sodium bicarbonate in supplement form?
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Sorry, but I'm lost in chemistry.
I make my own electrolyte drink by dissolving a couple of teaspoons of the ingredients below in one litre of water.
• potassium bicarbonate (KHCO₃) = potash
• sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO₃) = baking soda
• magnesium sulfate (MgSO₄) = epsom salt
• iodised table salt (99.9% NaCl + iodione as potassium iodate)I have no other sources of iodine than table salt, and I probably get too much salt even though it doesn't actually taste too salty. (one can get used to a lot)
There is much fuss about baking soda, but does it matter whether the bicarbonate comes from one source or another? That is, can I skip adding the baking soda?
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@Mossy Good question. There appears to be a way to embed the Na or K bicarbonate in a stomach-acid-resistant hydrogel.
Can you find out how they're using the listed ingredients to obtain an effective hydrogel in the Maurten Bicarb system? They use Maltodextrin, Fructose, Modified starch, Hydroxypropyl cellulose, Magnesium stearate, Xanthan gum to bind the sodium bicarb.Filling capsules really takes its time when those acid-resistant caps don't come as separated halves but must be pulled apart one by one before placing them in the capsule filler trays.
I have scoured the interwebs and found that buying sodium bicarb supplements in excipient-free, stomach-acid-resistant HPMC+gellan or HPMC-pectin capsules can cost "as little" as the same quantity of empty enteric capsules for a capsule filler at home.
But there are no sellers for KHCO3 capsules at all because of that annoying ban on anything above 100mg K in supplements. I'm therefore hovering on the thought of buying more HPMC+gellan capsules to fill at home.@Ena said:
does it matter whether the bicarbonate comes from one source or another? That is, can I skip adding the baking soda?
By what I know it doesn't matter and one can choose whatever form of (bi)carbonate one prefers!
Honestly, the whole kidney function explanations keep confusing me.What I've kept is that a solid amount of aldosterone benefits bicarbonate retention. Therefore reasonably low amounts of sodium should indeed be better for higher bicarbonate retention, I guess?
That would also mean that the ARBs, Angiotensin Receptor Blocker medications (and the ACE inhibitors to a degree as well), bear the potential to significantly screw with bicarbonate balance because of their aldosterone suppression. That alone is a large group of people. -
@Ena said in Random, interesting studies:
There is much fuss about baking soda, but does it matter whether the bicarbonate comes from one source or another? That is, can I skip adding the baking soda?
Yes, yes. Skip the baking soda. Short-term studies on healthy athletes using baking soda (NaHCO₃) do not address long-term health and longevity.
Dietary sodium is hoarded by our bodies and we tend to waste potassium. The ratio of sodium/potassium in our diet is important for blood pressure, insulin resistence, osteoporosis, diabetes mellitus, coronary artery disease and other diseases that occur as we get older. Read the details in The High Blood Pressure Solution: A Scientifically Proven Program for Preventing Strokes and Heart Disease (pdf)
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@DavidPS
Interesting book!- In contrast, dry cows (those not producing milk) or beef steers are
equally healthy whether or not they are given supplemental salt,7 and the
same is true for other domestic animals.8 And although wild herbivores
such as deer have been reputed to travel great distances to go to natural salt
licks, it is difficult to substantiate this belief. For example, Dr. A. R. Patton
analyzed mud sent in by forest rangers from areas in the Montana Rockies
where wild animals congregate to lick the soil. The rangers called these
sites salt licks, but Dr. Patton did not find sodium in any of the mud
samples. What he did find, however, was iodine,9 an element needed to
make thyroid hormone.*
- the total of the sodium plus the potassium inside the cell is constant:
Na + K = constant
The reasons for this have to do with the laws of physics and are outlined
in Chapter 4. Here’s the bottom line: It is impossible to lower sodium inside
the cell without replacing it with potassium. That’s why these two
substances are intimately linked in an inescapable balance. A low sodium
diet can’t possibly work unless it contains enough potassium to replace the
sodium inside the body’s cells.
- In contrast, dry cows (those not producing milk) or beef steers are
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@CrumblingCookie said in Random, interesting studies:
I have scoured the interwebs and found that buying sodium bicarb supplements in excipient-free, stomach-acid-resistant HPMC+gellan or HPMC-pectin capsules can cost "as little" as the same quantity of empty enteric capsules for a capsule filler at home.
Great info. Thank you!
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[bicarbonate of potassium or sodium]
Thanks @DavidPS and @CrumblingCookie.
I'll skip the baking soda from now on ... -
@dapose said in Random, interesting studies:
I’m using Boswellia every night before bed with baking soda and glycine water. Most consistent vivid dreams I’ve had as an adult!
It’s a COX enzyme blocker, very good anti inflammatory for me.Nice! Do you notice any hormonal or metabolic effects from it ?
