Random, interesting studies
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@DavidPS high amounts 40mg/kg peppermint caused white matter dmg vs 10mg/kg which didnt show it for this dmg , rats https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0378427483901212
But the menthol has some liver toxicity at dopamine doses i think, shows liver protection caused by other things but can cause liver changes https://doi.org/10.1016/0378-4274(83)90120-0
when i tried menthol for the dopamine & temp effect i tried it through the skin , noticed some liver pain after a bit ~1g. which i never get otherwise
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@cs3000 - thanks for the additional information.
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@cs3000 thanks interesting . It seems save enough for a short duration or infrequent use.
I also noticed some dopaminergic benefits from nebulizing peppermint oil . I guess the dose there should be very low.The liver pain might also come from it decreasing peristalsis and thus bile not being excreted fast enough and reabsorbed...
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@Mauritio
It also worth noticing that peppermint is a κ-opioid receptor agonist...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κ-opioid_receptor#Natural_agonists
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@Kvirion said in Random, interesting studies:
@Mauritio
It also worth noticing that peppermint is a κ-opioid receptor agonist...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κ-opioid_receptor#Natural_agonists
Uh oh..." KOR activation causes a release in prolactin,[76]"
But then :
Menthol from Mentha piperita Suppresses the Milk Production of Lactating Mammary Epithelial Cells In Vivo and In Vitro
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33188562/....
Doesn't add up . -
@Mauritio That might be how it inhibits LH and FSH, and is anti-androgenic, because the opioid receptor inhibits GnRH secretion when activated.
Steroids such as T and DHT, increase opioid receptor expression, which could be a mechanism of how they shut down the HPG axis.
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@Mauritio said in Random, interesting studies:
Doesn't add up .
Welcome to the real world of Complex Adaptive Systems
This means that reaction/influence/outcome is context-dependent. I.e. may be different for different sexes or certain conditions/circumstances...
BTW Before Peatiing, I was hypothyroid with IBS-D and pretty low T...
When I was using p-mint it definitely was slowing down my digestive system - in opioid-like ways.
Secondly, at first, I was feeling the influence of rising dopamine (MAO-B inhibition), but after an hour or two it always turned into an increase in prolactin and a decrease in testosterone, which unfortunately was painfully noticeable for at least half of a day or night... -
@alfredoolivas said in Random, interesting studies:
That might be how it inhibits LH and FSH, and is anti-androgenic, because the opioid receptor inhibits GnRH secretion when activated
Like I said above : the study showed that peoermint increased LH and FSH
@Kvirion said in Random, interesting studies:
but after an hour or two it always turned into an increase in prolactin and a decrease in testosterone, which unfortunately was painfully noticeable for at least half of a day or night...
Yeah too many people reports similar experience to yours, so I think it's best to stay away from it.
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@Mauritio said in Random, interesting studies:
Dates, olives and walnuts contain the highest amounts of the phytoprogestogen syringic acid.
Not only is syringic acid a phytoprogestogens, but it also had very potent pro thyroid effects in this study.
They gave rats a known anti- thyroid drug (PTU) to induce hypothyroidism.
Then they gave them syringic acid or T4.Syringic acid completely restored the T3 and T4 levels of hypothyroid rats.
It even increased them above baseline.T4 levels were even higher with syringic acid compared to giving them actual T4.
It also lowered TSH quite drastically .
@cs3000 they also included a control + synstingic acid group, and even in normal animals it helped their thyroid and increased T3 by about 30% .
Syringic acid had an affinity for the thyroid receptor TRb that was twice as strong as that of T3!
Syringic acid also increased antioxidants like SOD and catalase powerfully and lowered inflammatory cytokines.
These dosages they used are not achievable by diet alone though . Maybe there is a supplement. I also read something about pomegranate peels contain syringic acid.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34047416/ -
Pomegranates
One of the main polyphenols of pomegranate peels, Punicalagin, seems to have anti-estrogen and pro- progesterone effects. The anti- estrogen effect should be achievable by taking a supplement the pro- progesterone effect would be difficult. But this was an in vitro study in rats , so the dosages are a bit of a gamble anyway.
"Punicalagin (at 100 microg.ml(-1)) significantly (P<0.05) increased progesterone secretion. On the other hand, the release of 17beta-estradiol was significantly (P<0.005) decreased by punicalagin addition (at 10 microg.ml(-1))."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26291726/
Several polyphenols of pomegranate are aromatase inhibitors.
"These studies suggest that pomegranate ET-derived compounds have potential for the prevention of estrogen-responsive breast cancers."
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2805471/"PME binds ER and down-regulated the transcription of estrogen-responsive reporter gene transfected into breast cancer cells. The expressions of selected estrogen-responsive genes were down-regulated by PME"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21839626/This study hints at pomegranate extract containing significant amounts of syringic acid.
"WPE indicated that syringic acid (SA), vanillic acid and caffeic acid were the predominant flavonoids..."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0377840121000973Pomegranates peel extract increases progesterone and offspring weight and survival .
"Fppee improved homeothermy, progesterone concentration, and pregnancy outcomes."
"Lambs born to Fppee ewes had the highest birth weights and survivability. "
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S030645652400261Pomegranate extract increased Energy expenditure, V02, VCO2 and increases body temp after cold exposure.
Which probably means that it restores shivering cold thermogenesis, which is lost in unhealty people, meaning they can't mount an adaptive response to a stressor (cold). This is corroborated by the fact that Ucp, is increased in the Pomegranate group by 3- told, but only after cold exposure. It also increased SIRTI a lot and a protein called BMPB8, which stops preadipocytes from maturing into fully functional adipocytes.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9499678/#ijms-23-10460-f006Pomegranate contains 7 (!) Carbonic anhydrase inhibitors, leading to increased CO2.
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bpb1993/16/8/16_8_787/_articlePomegranate polyphenols inhbit mTOR (similar to protein restriction) . Mango too.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27028006/Pomegranate peel polyphenols lower adrenaline and cortisol induced by chronic, mild stress. It also I I it's MAO, strongly favoring MAO-B, leading to an increase in the dopamine/serotonin ratio.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/pcn.12100It reduces brain lead concentrations by about 90% in animals consuming high lead amounts.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?journal=Pol. J. Nat. Sci.&title=Algerian pomegranate peel decreases lead concentration in brain and improves neurological disorders&author=L. Gadouche&author=N. Djebli&author=Z. Khayra&volume=35&publication_year=2020&pages=97-107&#d=gs_qabs&t=1738438268566&u=%23p%3DvYGsC48cmZEJEllagic acid (one of the major active molecules in pomegranate). Decreases brain NO and NMDA receptors.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0143417919300204In this study pomegranate juice increased plasma catalase by 2x, vitamin C by 3X and and vitamin E by 5x, also increased testosterone by about 30% .
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18222572/ -
Vitamin A supplementation in third world countries drastically reduces mortality.
"Among children aged 12-71 months at baseline, mortality in control villages (75/10 231, 7·3 per 1000) was 49% greater than in those where supplements were given (53/10 919,4·9 per 1000) (p<0·05). "
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(86)91157-8/fulltext
(Mild)Vitamin A deficiency still affects almost a billion people
"In 2019, VAD and mVAD affected 333.95 million (95% CI = 253.00-433.74) and 556.13 million..."
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10416138/92% ofChildren with measles had Vitamin A deficiency. Giving them Vitamin A reduced their mortality by 50%!
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2194128/From: "Endocrine Physiology" by Constance R. Martin, Ph.D. :
"Laboratory mammals maintained on Vitamin A-
deficient diets stop growing, acquire numerOuS epi·
the]ial cell and connective tissue disorders. and be·
come blind and sterile. ""However. retinol or a precursor is needed for
spermatogenesis, for the ability to sustain preg·
nancy, and for the formation of visual pigments. ""Vitamin A supports bone remodeling. In defi·
ciency states. the passageways for nerves and blood
vessels do not enlarge sufficiently. Infants deprived
of the vitamin have detective loolh formation_" -
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Vitex Agnus castus:
TLDR:
- very strong evidence on pro-progesterone effect
- strong evidence on anti-prolactin effect, esp. In high doses
- few studies on estrogen and testosterone, effects ranging from low antagonism to slight agonism in both
PROGESTERONE:
In this human study on women with hyperprolactinemia it increased progesterone by almost 4-fold ,while increasing estrogen 1.13 fold.
So there's a very strong increase in progesterone and a comparably insignificant increase in estrogen."...and eliminated deficits in luteal
progesterone synthesis (placebo: 1.99±0.65→2.34±0.59 ng/ml; verum: 2.46±0.70→9.69±6.34) in
the verum group. The changes were significant. All other examined hormonal parameters did not change with the exception of 17ß-estradiol which increased significantly in the luteal phase in patients receiving verum (placebo: 119.5±26.0 pg/ml→131.1±33.2; verum: 131.6±25.0 pg/ml→151.6±25)"PROLACTIN:
Here's a lot of info on it from the RPF ,with OP claiming it removed his premature ejaculation. Dosage seems to be important.
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/vitex-for-men.11538/ -
"Result showed 5-HT released from platelet decreased..."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8043997/ -
Another very impressive study about A. Melegueta a.k.a. Grains of Paradise.
Not only did rats on a high fat diet not gain weight they actually lost weight while on GoP. Rarely ever saw that.
It also increased UCP1 by more than 100% and PGC1a several fold.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1934578X211033744#sec-2It can also quadruple rats testosterone , reduce prolactin and estrogen ,while not touching progesterone. For more info look at my posts on it on the former RPF.
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The Acute Effects of a Commercially Available Caffeinated and Caffeine-Free Thermogenic Dietary Supplement on Resting Energy Expenditure, Hunger, and Hemodynamic Responses
https://www.mdpi.com/1661-3821/4/1/6 -
@Mauritio nice one on the syringic acid thanks, agonises the trB receptor. so could be helpful for people with chronic inflammation having their t3 eaten up by immune cells / deiodinase 3 getting around this by hitting the receptor direct .
1,25 vit D up in poor health also has much more potent affinity for that receptor than t3 but as a blocking effect insteadLooking around at sources because of the dose i dont think u'd get enough from foods right, (they said 50mg/kg was better than 25mg/kg so wouldnt get the effect from lower by the sounds of it) ,
its reasonably priced but only seeing it on the sites not selling to individualsso its a hydroxybenzoic acid like aspirin
wonder if ferulic or vanilic acid could be alternatives?
ferulic acid also stimulates t3 activates TPO so maybe binds thyroid receptor too ? but by other effects not as potently as syringic
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8151655/
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Structures-of-aromatic-compounds_fig8_226981671or vanillin from vanilla extract but less similar
ferulic acid can be bought as a cosmetic , not very bioavailable in cereals because its bound in polysaccharides but given to mammals by itself its very bioavailable
here in vivo it reversed hypo too
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12020-024-03818-z
50mg/kg t3 levels
(not as effective as syringic)
very liver protective in cadmium toxicity when given after established (but like most of these polyphenols dosing high could deplete too many needed metals too over time)
10.1007/s11356-019-05420-7
,
curious what the differences are agonising trA vs trB thyroid receptors -
@cs3000 also ferulic acid is a partial 5ht1a agonist without effecting 5ht2a. not active at 10mg/kg in mice orally but is 50mg/kg ~250mg-300mg human , and 250mg/kg started losing effect. maybe 150mg - 500mg
So could give a relaxing / anti anxiety effect
but maybe a short effect time / half life
(lowered the amount they moved around frantically in new environment or around new mouse, and lowered the heightened aggression, given acutely
all of the effect went when they gave them a 5ht1a antagonist
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33829309/
50mg/kg orally in mice = enhanced exercise endurance, and prevented fatigue from consecutive days exercise
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bbb/73/6/73_90062/_pdf/-char/en
&
fully restored brain performance in Alzheimers model by restoring brain blood flow
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8423929/#Sec20
cool imaging
1 way to get a better idea if ferulic acid is legit, should smell like "metallic meat" or hot dogs
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@cs3000
It's bizarre that ferulic acid hasn't been getting much more attention on these forums already long ago. In cosmetics/skin care it's a "secret" niche ingredient. It's comparatively cheap to buy and mostly extracted from rice bran.
Taken orally, ferulic acid is super powerful with noticably effects already after a few hours / half a day. For me it gives a remarkably clear head/mind. As you've brought up it has this very rare anti-serotonin profile on the specific receptors. But it's also very antiinflammatory. I.e. it may have powerful effects on lowering immunity. I can't say which effect weighs stronger and therefore stopped to take it after only a few days (+-250mg twice a day) because the effects were uncannily good.
