Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?
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@AnxiousMess I agree
Number 5 actually is a human study.That being said, I would also love to see some human studies on its effect on hormones . But for now it seems safe enough to play around with for a while.
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I have been drinking tulsi (holy basil) tea on and off for years. It has a calming and stress-relieving effect. Maybe not instantly with one cup. But if I was in a chronic high stress state and drank multiple cups a day for a week or so, it made me continuously more relaxed.
Also tried capsules, but funnily enough I didn't get the same effect as with tea, although I'd think the extract in the capsules is more potent.
It's also a natural anti-histamine.
Edit:
If someone tries the tea, the quality of the different products is pretty hit-and-miss. The flavor can also be pretty different. A few bad products look like someone has picked dirty weeds from the side of the road and put them in a bag. I have had the best experience with tea bags from 'Lebensbaum', but I don't know if that's available in other parts of the world. On iherb you can find multiple products in capsule form. -
@Luke hey thanks for sharing .
Did you notice any subjectively androgenic effects ?Thanks for the suggestion. Seems like your from Germany as well, I might try the tea. I ordered the extract from Sunday naturals, usually they're pretty good.
But it seems like with holy basil the quality and the content of phytochemicals varies a lot, so in this case it might be good to try a few different sources .
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio
No, I didn't really notice androgenic effects (but also not the opposite), just the calming and relaxing effects. And I didn't do any blood tests.Yes, I'm from Germany. I was also on the old forum. The tulsi tea that you can get on amazon.de is pretty hit-and-miss like I said. Sometimes the taste is so different that it almost seems to be another tea.
I had the extract from Organic India a few years ago and didn't notice much. Please let me know if the product from Sunday naturals is good, I might try it as well. Too much tea is a bit inconvenient when you also drink a lot of juice.
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@Luke Oh, now I remember you. I think we chatted in the DMs. And didn't I also send you some protest stickers during covid ? Good times
Sure, I'll let you know !
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
Thanks @Mauritio!
Also
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4296439/here is mounting evidence that tulsi can address physical, chemical, metabolic and psychological stress through a unique combination of pharmacological actions. Tulsi has been found to protect organs and tissues against chemical stress from industrial pollutants and heavy metals, and physical stress from prolonged physical exertion, ischemia, physical restraint and exposure to cold and excessive noise. Tulsi has also been shown to counter metabolic stress through normalization of blood glucose, blood pressure and lipid levels, and psychological stress through positive effects on memory and cognitive function and through its anxiolytic and anti-depressant properties. Tulsi's broad-spectrum antimicrobial activity, which includes activity against a range of human and animal pathogens, suggests it can be used as a hand sanitizer, mouthwash and water purifier as well as in animal rearing, wound healing, the preservation of food stuffs and herbal raw materials and traveler's health.
https://examine.com/supplements/tulsi/
Tulsi (also known as Ocimum sanctum or holy basil) is an aromatic plant in the mint family (Lamiaceae) native to India and Southeast Asia.[5] It is rich in various bioactive phytochemicals, including rosmarinic acid, apigenin, ursolic acid, caffeic acid, ferulic acid, and eugenol.
[...]
The anti-inflammatory effects are thought to be due to the inhibition of the cyclooxygenase (COX)BTW COX is also inhibited by Aspirin...
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@Mauritio Yeah, that was me.
Holy Basil/tulsi as a mast cell stabilizer and potential remedy for asthma: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285952995_Mast_cell_stabilizing_activity_of_Ocimum_sanctum_leaves
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@Luke Its almost as effective as prednisone!
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Today I took half a capsule of my Tulsi extract, which comes down to 200mg of the extract including 4mg ursolic acid.
- feels subjectively androgenic, libido slighlty higher, muscle seem fuller, chest looks firm
- Mood is good and relaxed. It was maybe not the best idea to take it in the morning. Its more of a afternoon/ evening supp, due its calming effects. Although it isnt sedating, it has some pro dopamine molecules like ursolic acid in it.
- skin looks smooth and glowing, which I normally I get from antioxidants or youth steroids.
- Suspect some antimicrobial effects going on in the gut
So far, so good!
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:
4mg ursolic acid.
This study shows that even very small doses of ursolic acid can have an dopaminergicly mediated anti-depressant effect- HEDs of 0.5 and 0.05mg were effective while 5 and 50mg actually showed less / no benefit. So by me consuming 4mg im moving out of the benefit territtory. But tulsi is sp much more than ursolic acid, so its hard to say how it impacts overall effects. But I might try a lower dose in the future maybe like 1mg.
https://sci-hub.voed.top/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091305712002377
In this study ursolic acid has spectacular results on Klotho, Sirt1 and 6 and PGCa. Although the dosage was 1250mg(HED), so not attainable from tulsi extract. But maybe lower doses have beneficial effect as well.
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Tulsi shortened the healing period of a fracture in animals by two weeks.
It also slightly increases calcium and lowers phosphate.Subjectively I can say that my teeth feel more solid and stable a similar effect which I get from boron, which also increases calcium and vitamin D .
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So after another day I can say, it definitely feels androgenic, libido is increased, muscles fuller . Feeling more energetic and confident.
Yesterday I took it after work and starting getting energetic again but it also feels anti-stress at the same time.
Only downside is it messes with my sleep, only slept 6-7h last 2 days . Not sure why. There are some pro-dopamine substances in Tulsi like rosmarinic acid or ursolic acid.
It's not that I can't fall asleep, it just seems less restful and I wake up early .
I found a few reports of that on reddit, although other people say that it's great for sleep.I'll do a washout of 2 days and then I'll try the Microdose of 25mg to replicate the above animal study where it still doubled testosterone in hopes of not getting sleep issues.
After that I'll probably try baiclin or the grains of paradise again .Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio wow this is very interesting! I’m pleasantly surprised and happy at the positive effects!! How long you gonna do the micro dose for? Or you gonna see how it goes for the first couple of days etc.?
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@Ismail hey mate, I'll try it for one day first and see if sleep is impacted in any way...
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@Mauritio hmm some big results ty,
its odd how variable they are thoughso that first study was very high dose as an extract, they showed testosterone crashed
here in rats feeding an extract crashed testosterone too , with LH going up in response,
again very high dose 500mg/kg of extract , 95% ethanol extract
ursolic acid didnt play much of a role
https://www.ijpsonline.com/articles/a-study-on-the-effect-of-ocimum-sanctum-linn-leaf-extract-and-ursolic-acid-on-spermatogenesis-in-male-rats.pdf
here using lower doses up to 300mg/kg in mice didnt impair fertility (restored it against cigarette smoke, test not mentioned)
(is it the extract process, dose, or the location of the leaf creating the increase vs decrease?
they said ethanol here, was it 100%?)
http://repository.unusa.ac.id/9598/1/The Effectiveness of Extract Basil Leaves on Motility and Morphology of Spermatozoa Mice Exposed with Cigarette Smoke.pdffeeding just the leaves to rats caused infertility here too. because of high acidity, with decreased testes weight.
but cant see the amount given
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Antifertility-effect-of-Ocimum-sanctum-L.-Kasinathan-Ramakrishnan/401cf7dfa99306f89296dcfb8fc2353f8d69d2ca2 weeks of stopping = reversal
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/REVERSIBLE-ANTI-FERTILITY-EFFECT-OF-BENZENE-EXTRACT-Ahmed-R.-Ahamed/7a7b9a2725a96c71028e519f924f79664a246714Great effect for the fresh leaves + rabbit studies though using 2g of leaves,
high dose of an extract showed opposite effect for thyroid too- However, Panda et al have reported
that OS leaf extract (0.5 g/ kg body weight)
led to significant decrease in serum T3 and
T4 levels which are in contrast to our study.
[19]
maybe best to use dried leaf powder instead of extract so get all compounds water & fat / ethanol soluble
2g leaves
2kg rabbits
1g leaf / kg , human dose maybe ~20g - 30g leaf ( 2g - 3g leaf powder if wet weight 10:1 (?) )~5g of fresh tulsi leaf paste showed good anti inflammatory effect https://www.researchgate.net/publication/289802769_Anti_inflammatory_activity_of_fresh_tulsi_leaves_Ocimum_Sanctum_in_albino_rats
some of the compounds (water soluble part only) https://sci-hub.ru/https://doi.org/10.1111/and.14179
But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was india300mg/kg dose of just the oil extract caused infertility and lowered testosterone , 100mg/kg didnt raise or lower testosterone https://dergipark.org.tr/en/pub/jabs/issue/34910/387191
so its probably the water soluble compounds responsible , or leaves from certain locations
dark green basil leaves have novel peptides https://bmccomplementmedtherapies.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12906-023-04098-2
"world," as a source of new perceptions
more https://substack.com/@cs3001"Self-organizing systems decay only if they have assimilated inertia and — with a little support of the right kind— the centers of degeneration can become centers of regeneration"
- However, Panda et al have reported
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would you eve take schisandra/reishi etc?
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@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:
here in rats feeding an extract crashed testosterone too , with LH going up in response,
again very high dose 500mg/kg of extract , 95% ethanol extract
ursolic acid didnt play much of a roleInteresting because that was the same dose caused an increase in progesterone in female mice without altering other hormones
@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:
is it the extract process, dose, or the location of the leaf creating the increase vs decrease?
they said ethanol here, was it 100%?)I read that even amongst plants harvested from the same field the chemical composition varies a lot. So the best thing is probably to try out different kinds and dosages . I happen to have found an extract that works . But i also like the idea of the dried leave powder. I ordered some of the droed leave powder for basil and holy basil. Since they're pretty cheap.
@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:
But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was indiaThis study used basil not holy basil .
basil (Ocimum basilicum) and holy basil (Ocimum tenuiflorum, also called Ocimum sanctum) are different in chemical composition . While basil (Ocimum basilicum) also seems to have a pro- Testo effect, we can't transfer the dosage 1:1 to holy basil.
That was a mistake I made as well , study on Microdose-basil I posted actually uses basil not holy basil , so I don't know if I'd get the same effects from a microdose of holy basil. But since everything varies so much here anyway, it's best to just try it out.The odd thing is that both the Microdose 25mg of basil and the mega dose 20g (1.5g/kg) seems to have the same effect on testosterone (increase in about 80-100%) that's a 1000x the dosage. Lol something doesn't add up here or the therapeutic window of Basil (Ocimum Basilicum) is extremely large.
The side effects only showed with Ocimum Sanctum not O. Basilicum, so maybe it is even a better alternative ?
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
Although in the basil microdose study they also state
"Each rat used 3 gr of the powder
daily for 45 days."Not sure why they're saying this as this wasn't they did.
"One of the
subgroups, as the diabetic control group,
received normal saline and the other two
subgroups, as the treatment groups,orally
received 2 and 4 mg/kg of basil powder,..."
https://www.mlj.goums.ac.ir/article-1-774-en.html -
@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:
But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was indiaThis study used basil not holy basil .
basil (Ocimum basilicum) and holy basil (Ocimum tenuiflorum, also called Ocimum sanctum) are different in chemical composition . While basil (Ocimum basilicum) also seems to have a pro- Testo effect, we can't transfer the dosage 1:1 to holy basil.
That was a mistake I made as well , study on Microdose-basil I posted actually uses basil not holy basil , so I don't know if I'd get the same effects from a microdose of holy basil. But since everything varies so much here anyway, it's best to just try it out.The odd thing is that both the Microdose 25mg of basil and the mega dose 20g (1.5g/kg) seems to have the same effect on testosterone (increase in about 80-100%) that's a 1000x the dosage. Lol something doesn't add up here or the therapeutic window of Basil (Ocimum Basilicum) is extremely large.
The side effects only showed with Ocimum Sanctum not O. Basilicum, so maybe it is even a better alternative ?
yeah that is fucked lol ,
sounds like its an ethanol extract so 2mg/kg of ethanol extract. and 4mg/kg didnt give any further effect than 2x testosterone. but yeah its very fucked how far apart they are ok Ocimum basilicum sweet basil , so same one that showed test increase in sheep eating the whole plant -
Here's another cool study for basil (O. basilicium, NOT holy basil) on Testosterone.
If anyone is still following this thread at this point you might want to go for basil not holy basil. Or both. I just haven't seen a single negative study on basil in relation to testosterone and for holy basil there are a few.
In arsenic treated rats it was able to almost completely restore their testosterone values to normal . Unfortunately they didn't have a control+ basil group , but basil almost tripled the T value of the arsenic treated rats compared to only arsenic treated rats. It also restored sperm health and testes weight and increased antioxidant enzymes drastically .
All of this especially at the highest dose of 500mg/kg, HED= 6g of O. Basilicum 95% alcohol extract.
