Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic
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At the 13:00 mark of the following video, Chris claims that salicylates block energy production in the mitochondria and can deplete glycine, which the body uses to rid itself of the salicylic acid.
I wonder how Chris and someone like like Haidut can come to opposite conclusions about aspirin. To those who regularly browse pubmed and the litetature, have you come across evidence supporting Chris's claims? I'm not a regular aspirin user but I take it roughly twice a month when I'm feeling sluggish and usually feel a substantial energy boost from it.
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@Sitaruim - Silly me, I think this is yet another reason to get more glycine in your diet and not a reason to avoid salicyaltes.
NutritionFacts.org has a nice video about salicylates in foods and spices and how they are assoicated with lower incidence of cancers. The video has hotlinks to the studies it refers to in the video.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/plants-with-aspirin-aspirations/
My thinking is that if aspirin is costing pension systems $, then it has got to be healthy of people like me. It is good to learn that aspirin, which is currently cheap and readily available, is at the top of their list.
Aspirin seen costing pensions $100 billion as lifespans increase (2013) -
@DavidPS good point, I may resume a daily dose of magnesium bisglycinate I have lying around in my cupboard, it seems that both glycine and magnesium are nutrients we can't get enough of.
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@Sitaruim said in Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic:
I'm not a regular aspirin user but I take it roughly twice a month when I'm feeling sluggish and usually feel a substantial energy boost from it.
As long you're aware of possible side-effects and your counteract them, it's well pro-metabolic.
As long you metabolize well (kidneys and liver), if you don’t overburden …
The liver metabolizes salicylic acid into its active forms and then conjugates it with glycine, forming salicyluric acid. Subsequently, the kidneys excrete salicyluric acid and other metabolites, effectively neutralizing and eliminating the salicylic acid from the body.I've this doc in my PC wallet on the Possible side effects:
Pregnancy and Breastfeeding
Salicylates are not recommended during pregnancy, so pregnant and breastfeeding women should not take willow bark.
Interactions and Depletions
Because willow bark contains salicylates, it might interact with a number of drugs and herbs. Talk to your doctor before taking willow bark if you take any other medications, herbs, or supplements.
Willow bark may interact with any of the following:
Anticoagulants (blood-thinning medications): Willow bark may strengthen the effects of drugs and herbs with blood-thinning properties, and increase the risk of bleeding.
Aspirin acts on blood platelets by inhibiting cyclooxygenase, an enzyme that plays an important role in platelet aggregation, permanently, i.e., for the entire lifespan of the platelet (between 7 and 15 days). In this way, it facilitates circulation and can be used to prevent heart attacks by preventing the formation of clots (thrombosis).
Beta blockers: including Atenolol (Tenormin), Metoprolol (Lopressor, Toprol-XL), Propranolol (Inderal, Inderal LA). Willow bark may make these drugs less effective.
Diuretics (water pills): Willow bark may make these drugs less effective.
Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs: including ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin) and naproxen (Aleve). Taking willow bark with these drugs may increase risk of stomach bleeding.
Methotrexate and phenytoin (Dilantin): Willow bark may increase levels of these drugs in the body, resulting in toxic levels.Sources:
*) Willow bark sides effects
https://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/willow-bark
*) Possible Interactions
http://naturaldatabase.therapeuticresearch.com/nd/PrintVersion.aspx?id=955&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
Comment (LucH): A low posology won’t have the same effect as a high one when taking on several days. -
@Sitaruim salicylate is..... le bad!!!!!
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Dr. Peter Rogers, a Harvard- and Stanford-trained physician reveals a shocking list of everyday drugs (like statins), foods (like processed junk), and chemicals (like glyphosate) that are toxic to your mitochondria
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@LucH said in Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic:
@Sitaruim said in Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic:
I'm not a regular aspirin user but I take it roughly twice a month when I'm feeling sluggish and usually feel a substantial energy boost from it.
As long you're aware of possible side-effects and your counteract them, it's well pro-metabolic.
As long you metabolize well (kidneys and liver), if you don’t overburden …
The liver metabolizes salicylic acid into its active forms and then conjugates it with glycine, forming salicyluric acid. Subsequently, the kidneys excrete salicyluric acid and other metabolites, effectively neutralizing and eliminating the salicylic acid from the body.I've this doc in my PC wallet on the Possible side effects:
Pregnancy and Breastfeeding
Salicylates are not recommended during pregnancy, so pregnant and breastfeeding women should not take willow bark.
Interactions and Depletions
Because willow bark contains salicylates, it might interact with a number of drugs and herbs. Talk to your doctor before taking willow bark if you take any other medications, herbs, or supplements.
Willow bark may interact with any of the following:
Anticoagulants (blood-thinning medications): Willow bark may strengthen the effects of drugs and herbs with blood-thinning properties, and increase the risk of bleeding.
Aspirin acts on blood platelets by inhibiting cyclooxygenase, an enzyme that plays an important role in platelet aggregation, permanently, i.e., for the entire lifespan of the platelet (between 7 and 15 days). In this way, it facilitates circulation and can be used to prevent heart attacks by preventing the formation of clots (thrombosis).
Beta blockers: including Atenolol (Tenormin), Metoprolol (Lopressor, Toprol-XL), Propranolol (Inderal, Inderal LA). Willow bark may make these drugs less effective.
Diuretics (water pills): Willow bark may make these drugs less effective.
Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs: including ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin) and naproxen (Aleve). Taking willow bark with these drugs may increase risk of stomach bleeding.
Methotrexate and phenytoin (Dilantin): Willow bark may increase levels of these drugs in the body, resulting in toxic levels.Sources:
*) Willow bark sides effects
https://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/willow-bark
*) Possible Interactions
http://naturaldatabase.therapeuticresearch.com/nd/PrintVersion.aspx?id=955&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
Comment (LucH): A low posology won’t have the same effect as a high one when taking on several days.Another informative post from LucH, aka Le Lapin Français.
I'm curious, why do you prefer white willow bark over aspirin?
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@Mossy said in Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic:
Another informative post from LucH, aka Le Lapin Français.
I'm curious, why do you prefer white willow bark over aspirin?
Thanks for the image. Funny. I appreciate.
Salicine has nearly no deleterious impact on the integrity / state of the wall of the stomach. I should have rather said that it causes less gastroduodenal mucosal damage. Less toxic is the word used by "official" studies.
When it combines with the gastric acid, we got salsalate, a brother of salicylic acid, as in the aspirin.
Suppose to be less powerful. But when we take the totum of the plant (willow bark extract), there is much more than just salicine. This tree bark is very resistant to stress.
NB: Studies have consistently demonstrated that salsalate causes less damage to the gastroduodenal mucosa compared to aspirin, even when equivalent systemic salicylate levels are reached. Salsalate lacks the direct acetyl group that contributes to these damageable effects on mucin. -
White willow bark extract (salix alba) (Mind if not minimum 15% salicin)
Uses
Willow bark can be an effective analgesic if the salicylate content is sufficient. It has antioxidant and anti-inflammatory activity. (1)Lower back pain
Clinical data
A 4-week, double-blind, clinical trial tested 2 oral doses of willow bark extract containing salicin 120 mg or 240 mg against placebo in 191 patients. Primary outcome measure was the number of patients requiring relief medication (tramadol) 5 out of 7 days during the final week of the study. Pain index measures showed reduction in relief medication with both doses of salicin. Patients receiving the 240 mg dose had more improvement in pain index measures. Moderate efficacy was demonstrated with both doses of salicin for short-term treatment of acute episodes of chronic nonspecific lower back pain. (2) Postmarketing surveillance of a proprietary willow bark extract product reported no serious adverse reactions. (3)
Another 4-week, randomized, controlled study tested oral willow bark extract (salicin) 240 mg against rofecoxib 12.5 mg/day in 183 patients. Rofecoxib is no longer available, however both the salicin and rofecoxib group improved by 44% on pain index measures. There was no difference in efficacy between the 2 treatment groups. (4)
Sources and references:- Kahkonen MP , Hopia AI , Vuorela HJ , Rauha JP , Pihlaja K , Kujala TS , Heinonen M . Antioxidant activity of plant extracts containing phenolic compounds . J Agric Food Chem . 1999 ; 47 ( 10 ) : 3954-3962 .
- Chrubasik S , Eisenberg E , Balan E , Weinberger T , Luzzati R , Conradt C . Treatment of low back pain exacerbations with willow bark extract: a randomized double-blind study . Am J Med . 2000 ; 109 ( 1 ) : 9-14 .
- Chrubasik S , Kunzel O , Black A , Conradt C , Kerschbaumer F . Potential economic impact of using a proprietary willow bark extract in outpatient treatment of low back pain: an open non-randomized study . Phytomedicine . 2001 ; 8 ( 4 ) : 241-251 .
- Chrubasik S , Kunzel O , Model A , Conradt C , Black A . Treatment of low back pain with a herbal or synthetic anti-rheumatic: a randomized controlled study. Willow bark extract for low back pain . Rheumatology . 2001 ; 40 ( 12 ) : 1388-1393 .
Interesting link (in French):
http://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t597-l-aspirine-est-pro-metabolique-et-anti-cancer#5031
=> Aspirin & White willow bark + Some products, where to buy. -
@Sitaruim magnesium must be balanced with calcium to maintain normal muscle function
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@lobotomize-me That's ok, I consume dairy every day. Milk, yogurt, and cheese.
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@Sitaruim said in Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic:
Chris claims that salicylates block energy production in the mitochondria and can deplete glycine
LOL, that's a very reductionist approach of his, such a shame...
One cannot judge biochemical processes in isolation; our body is an interconnected and interdependent ecosystem.
Moreover, things/processes are context-dependent; for example, when Salicylates use glycine and there is not enough of it, it's bad not because of aspirin, etc., but because of poor nutrition lacking adequate glycine sources.And most probably by "block energy production," he means uncoupling. And saying that this is bad is just ignorance.
Uncoupling in the right amount, place, and time is a good thing.
As described by Haidut: https://haidut.me/?p=1680
There is also a very informative post about that on the old forum, by our friend @Mauritio https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/uncoupling-increases-t3.40540/Chris M. still has a lot to learn...
[Edit]
Worth reading too https://haidut.me/?tag=uncouplingA little learning is a dangerous thing ;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring :
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
~Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism -
@Kvirion Thank you for your contribution
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I don’t trust this guys physiognomy.
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@GreekDemiGod Your noticing does not go unnoticed.
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@GreekDemiGod I have learned not to discard an individual based on their physiognomy. Some absolutely outstanding humans weren't favored by the gods when it comes to looks.
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@Sitaruim said in Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic:
Chris claims that salicylates block energy production in the mitochondria and can deplete glycine
I won' formulate it so. The video is an interview. Not quite adapted.
Here is a developed position:
Why aspirin goes best with bicarbonate and glycine
Chris Masterjohn PhD – Video 9:42
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGcOHmIFnGc
This episode is how to take aspirin safely if you have to take inflammatory drugs, to avoid / to dampen damages to the lining of the stomach.
Excerpt:
If we want to get rid of the salicylate part (Video time 3:20), we can use glycine. The amino acid glycine neutralizes salicylates. It means salicylate has no biological effect. The second thing you have to do is to pee, drink water to get it out, to evacuate residues. You don’t have to take glycine / to glycinate salicylates at first.
So to prevent the nasty effects, the faster you pee it out, the faster you get rid of possible side effects. If the pH of you urine goes from pH 6 to pH 7, you pee it out 17 times more efficiently (faster, we should say). The more you pee, the more you get rid of salicylates. (Video time +/ 4:10). If the pH of you urine goes from pH 6 to pH 8, you pee it out 25 times faster.
The second potential side effect of aspirin is that you do use glycine when you detoxify it.
CM advises 3 to 5 g of glycine for each dose of taken aspirin. (Video time +/ 6:00). CM repeats to modify pH pee up to 7 to make it easier to get rid / to recover.
Note’s editor (LucH): Begin with 2 g soda bicarbonate, taking apart from digestion when eating meat. I’d rather use potassium bicarbonate. I use one dose potassium bicarbonate (3.2 g) half an hour before bedtime when I need to correct my acid-base level. Do not stay too long at pH 8.5: Impact on Thymus. Th1 <> Th2.
I've made a transcription of the main passages of the video. I can open a new post if somewone wants it, with usual caution and staple (interaction).
