Milk is goyslop
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@bio3nergetic calcium decreases iron and it has been shown in babies unlike peat i think iron is necessary plus it causes copper imbalance another important mineral, the issue with milk is supermarket goyslop milk is even worse than raw milk which might have some nutritional benefits in context. More natural vitamins (like heat-sensitive Vitamin C, B2 B6, B12) and enzymes (like lipase and phosphatase) that are reduced by pasteurization if not completely destroyed as well ass the probiotic bacteria that support gut health. the denaturing of proteins during pasteurization makes it less digestible or more allergenic for most people. Most milk is full of antibiotics and growth hormones (rBST) in some conventional systems and many cows are grainfed instead of grass, which can alter the fat profile of the milk. Tldr dont bother with goyslop processed milk. No people in history drunk jewed milk until last 100 years.
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"Aryan" from Cyprus can't even handle milk!
Try goat milk. -
@lykos We can't just making sweeping statements like that. Calcium generally does not negatively impact copper absorption. It can actually improve copper bioavailability by neutralizing acidic compounds like ascorbic acid that otherwise inhibit copper uptake. The reasonable daya show high calcium intake helps maintain copper balance.
It's effect on iron is also dependent on forms, timing, and type. Essentially having calcium either in food form or supplement form away from iron or iron foods ensures virtually no blocking effect. There's the long term 1 year study that even showed a fluctuation in that initially any inhibition, if any, the body compensated its iron absorption at other intervals of time. Also the type of iron matters. Real, animal heme iron is only affected about 20% absorption and again that's if the timing is simultaneous. Non heme which we should probably get less of anyway is affected much higher, again contingent on timing.
Denaturing proteins is also contextual, if we consider the common method of pasteurization, the negative effects do not outweigh milk as a staple. What is most common is known as High-Temperature Short-Time (HTST): 161°F (72°C) for 15 seconds. This is the most common method in the U.S. and denatures maybe 10% of the whey proteins. Casein barely flinches at this method, it is very heat stable. The threshold of creating allergenic proteins is upwards of 30m. This is not at all the time utilized in any common method. Typically, people have PUFA driven enzymatic deficiency, or poorly functioning ones at that. PUFA and starvation can derange our structural and functional proteins, which include immune and redblood cells and enzymes. For example, use progesterone to build lactase enzymes to digest milk better after years of abuse in this environment.
In general, find the best milk possible that agrees with you and taste GOOD. Is raw milk better of course. But in no way is it wise to throw out the baby with the dirty bath water.
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@Kilgore i am not from cypus and i used to drink up to 3 liters of milk a day
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@bio3nergetic @user1 describe what happened to you milkmaxxing
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@lykos Milk is just part of my diet. Usually I do swigs throughout the day. I dont drink water. Oj and milk for thirst and general minerals. I had IBD 25 years ago. Surgery, complications and finally within a decade, troubles started again. 2014 found Peat, everything changed. Perspective, how to think, nutritional thinking in general. I couldn't drink milk before that. After changing diet and general approach, that fixed itself. I went back to studying nutrition and became certified nutritionist. Helped some people, then quit that because generally people were argumentative. My awareness in accessing foods changed, including milk. I can just smell a milk product and know that its legit or not. Some brands brazeningly polluted their milks from the plandemic era when everything was a shit show and farmer and dairies were being subsidized to do what ckntrolling entities wanted them to do. Almost all children's cereals for example swapped their fats out for PUFA. Especially 2021. Milk for example some companies were using bleach at their dairies in less than ideal ways and you could smell it in the milk.
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@bio3nergetic i am not against milk, i am against goyslop supermarket milk, peat should have made distinctions when he promoted it. Drinking 2-3L of supermarket milk a day will make you sick fast unless u live in a country that has high quality dairy like denmark or switzerland.
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I have been wondering about milk too. I drink high quality milk only, so I'm not worried about that. But why should we need all that calcium?
I've read that a good calcium to magnesium ratio is 1-1 or at most 2-1. Even the 2-1 ratio is not really possible on a very high dairy diet.
I've craved lots of milk at times but maybe I was just dehydrated from always using mineral depleted water. (because of my water filter.) I think I'm craving milk less now that I stopped filtering my water.
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@bio3nergetic said in Milk is goyslop:
Calcium generally does not negatively impact copper absorption. It can actually improve copper bioavailability by neutralizing acidic compounds like ascorbic acid that otherwise inhibit copper uptake. The reasonable daya show high calcium intake helps maintain copper balance.
There are so many reports of high-dairy-consumption induced copper deficiency on pubmed I ask you to look up.
High dairy consumption appears to be one of the few trialled and proven ways to bring about copper deficiency. And calcium is usually reported to antagonize copper uptake.
Also, in the early days of cow milk infant formulas, babies died because of the nutritional lack of copper in comparison to human breast milk.For the argument of modern dairy product / milks, for the most part and since the 1930s onwards, being utter garbage and to the long-term detriment of the peoples world-wide everybody please also look up your national cattle surveillance spot check statistics showing consistent 20-30% detection rate of mycobacteria across all batches before pasteurization.
About half of them are still clearly infectious after that sloppy heat treatment. Milk powder and infant formula included.
Survival of Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis in retail pasteurised milk
I don't claim dairy products and milks and butters are bad per se.
However, the qualities commonly provided are outright appaling and hardly anyone even blinks an eye over this IMO unacceptable state. -
@lykos He did make a distinction. He has very carefully talked about that added synthetic vitamin A, or general added vitamins isn't great. He has said of course brands that use antibiotics are not good. He has said choose carefully and stick to the milk that tastes good and feels good. And the obvious, no added gums or really weird stuff. He wasn't ignorant to the adulterated state of milk. His words were of wisdom and caution. In and of itself milk is great. As a teacher he taught that first and foremost. Second to that followed the reality of manufacturing and the business of it. His general insight is, yes be aware and cautious, but incorporating (the right) milk is better than not.
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@CrumblingCookie Show me one study and I'll show you something wrong with that study.
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@CrumblingCookie "However, the qualities commonly provided are outright appaling and hardly anyone even blinks an eye over this IMO unacceptable state."
I don't disagree with this at all and essentially the primary point is the same. I just think there are decent products to be consumed, even with their own imperfections, it's better than discounting milk in general.
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@bio3nergetic i was drinking 2-3 liters of milk my self and it caused me severe copper deficiency that i ams till recovering from, calcium will imbalance your magnesium, copper and iron, there is no good reason to promote that much milk
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@lykos it's always a matter of context. If you aren't eating a well-rounded diet, a lot of one thing can imbalance something else. That's true for anything, not just milk.
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@bio3nergetic I was eating a well rounded diet and 200g of liver each week, you are making dumb assertions. You simply dont know what you are talking about, @user1 is another victim of milkmaxxing meme.
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@lykos Okay very good, I don't know anything. Enjoy yourself.
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@CrumblingCookie said in Milk is goyslop:
calcium is usually reported to antagonize copper uptake.
We have to make the difference between Ca from food and supplement.
From supplement, if not bound to an amino acid (like glycine) but to gluconate, 40 mg Ca is sufficient to impair absorption of Cu, Fe and Zn (same transport). So, a very low amount.
Ca from food (cheese) should be absorbed (embed) but probably not well if the amount is 400 mg Ca.
And by the way when Ca is bound to phytate, Ca is not free to be absorbed so. Cheese offers highly bioavailable calcium (approx. 40% absorbed) due to its protein-rich matrix. Broccoli also provides high-quality, available calcium (40-50% absorbed). less fine if bound to oxalates.
1/4 Ox / Ca as ratio required, as minimum.
PS: No need to target 1200 mg Ca. There are 3 levels:- 550 mg Ca if you live in the jungle and run all the day long, eat fruits, tubercula's, honey, and antilope
- 850 mg for most people (my target) if you control the acid-base balance.
- 1200 mg if you eat a lot of processed food.
NB: Target Na/K Mg/Ca (1/2 or 1/3) and Ca/P (2.2/1). As long P is not higher than 1.5x, it's OK but not every day.
Note I don't use the ideal ratio for Na/K (to taste). I listen to my body.
No more than 420 mg Mg if problem with Vit D level (under 45 ng/ml) if the other cofactors are fine. We're not talking when in crisis. Higher if I stress (2 or 3 times 300 mg Mg according to nutritionist). After. No anticipation.
- 550 mg Ca if you live in the jungle and run all the day long, eat fruits, tubercula's, honey, and antilope
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@LucH now imagine average peatard consuming 3g of calcium a day, some of peats ideas are really low iq despite him being intelligent.
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Outside your fried brain, this is the only problem you may be having.
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/the-travis-corner.21611/post-356157
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Let's say you're mediterranean - or not. Make mediterranean coffee in a copper pot. There's your copper source. Also, acids like coffee leech the copper out, also why vinegar is used to clean copper. It can be toxic in high amounts which requires long exposure time (>1 hour) of the liquid in the copper.
Still, I don't see how milk can cause copper deficiency unless you're hammering milk like a peatard and short of other copper sources. I don't think I've ever gone higher than 1/2 gallon (2 liters) in one day and usually less than 1 liter.
Ray Peat never promoted milk indiscriminately. He's not on record saying "drink 1 gallon of milk daily."
I'll agree with you, the global food supply / dairy is probably sub optimal. I don't think raw milk is special. I don't think regular milk is a magic fix. Organic tastes better and might be slightly better.
He qualified whole milk by saying high physical activity is a must for the amount of fat it contains. That's fair, and the majority of milk drinkers are using it for cereal or other pufa slop. So you can't act like people are actually drinking milk with dinner like back in the old days. Very few do this.
