11KT - 11-keto-Testosterone
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11-keto-Testosterone is the Testosterone equivalent of the famous 11-keto-DHT idealabs product.
So what you would expect is a longer half life and the same /similar physiological effects as Testosterone.
On top of that there is a study saying that it does NOT aromatize.
"Conversely, 11-KT did not activate estrogen receptor-mediated transactivation in aromatase-expressed MCF-7 cells, whereas testosterone did following conversion to estrogen. 11-KT did not affect the estrogen/estrogen receptor -mediated cell proliferation of MCF-7 cells.
"The current study indicates that 11-KT is produced in the gonads and represents a major androgen in human. It can potentially serve as a nonaromatizable androgen."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27428878/It is available on several websites and has good reviews. Although people seems fo take insanely high dosages of it, as with most anabolics.
Has anybody tried it?
https://iron-legion.com/collections/products/products/xi-kt
https://www.predatornutrition.com/prohormones/iron-legion-supplements/xi-kt.html
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Downstream metabolite with not much human safety trials. That product also seems to have other junk ingredients. I would be cautious Mauritio.
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I would buy this if it came in a little white dropper bottle with a plain label
Edit: It appears as though you can get the raw powder straight up from a few places, but it's ABSURDLY priced, like lisuride expensive: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=fpas&q=564-35-2&ia=web
At that price, you might as well megadose progesterone/6-keto-p4 and 11-keto DHT at the same time to get AR agonism (from the DHT) and GR antagonism (from prog), sort of replicating the effects of 11KT.
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@engineer I don't think it's that expensive. I would take low doses anyway so that's not an issue for me.
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio What is your standard of expensive? 50mg costs about $2000, so if you wanted to do a nice small dose of 5mg per day, that's $200 per DAY. Compare that to something like boring old T propionate from PPL, and you're getting 100mg for around $50, 80x less per unit. Or if you did something like Pansterone and Kuinone, 10+2 drops would only be around $30 a MONTH, or $1 per day, a full 200 times cheaper than the 11 keto T equivalent.
But if we looked at the XI-KT product, it claims 2.55g for $70. That's already a lot cheaper than anything else I've mentioned so they either have a sweetheart bulk deal with a supplier or are faking the 11KT content.
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@engineer i just want to give it a try and run a low dose . Probably wouldn't even take it everyday so cost really isn't the issue here.
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@Mauritio If you're talking about XI-KT then that could work just as an experiment. Actually, a bottle is only $70, no different than what we'd pay for Idealabs, so I might try it too.
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@Mauritio Have you ordered this XI-KT thing yet? I was about to do so but was wondering if you had anything else of note to say before that.
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@bio3nergetic I took a lookat the junk ingredients and it appears as though those are in fact boring old lotion ingredients, as if this isn't simple liquid like from Idealabs but rather something more elaborate, but there are no photos anywhere of it being applied so it's hard to know for sure until one of us tries it out.
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Note that Peat didn't like keto group steroid variants in general maybe because the keto group's effects aren't as fully studied, but so far, there doesn't appear to be anything notable about 11 keto DHT other than its longer half life, so it's likely that the other ketos are sinilar.
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@engineer I know from personal experience, back in 2012 7-Keto made hair fall out that never grew back.
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@bio3nergetic I had to look this up and 7 keto DHEA is just plain weird. It's not an agonist or antagonist of anything but it does have some interesting enzymatic action.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10348924/
"Many studies showed that DHEA and some of its derivatives are thermogenic and that their ability to induce thermogenesis increases in the following sequence: DHEA–7-𝛼-OH-DHEA–7-keto-DHEA–7 𝛽-OH-DHEA [10]. Their thermogenic properties are likely attributed to increased levels of thermogenic enzymes that shuttle substrate and electrons in and out of the mitochondria and, due to increased proton leak, across the mitochondrial inner membrane. Like thyroid hormone, 7-keto-DHEA increases the levels of mitochondrial sn-glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase (mGPDH) and cytosolic malic enzyme, indicating that they enhance thermogenesis through similar mechanisms [11]. They use a metabolically inefficient pathway called glycerophosphate shuttle for electron transport that bypasses the NADH–ubiquinone sequence of the respiratory chain. The electron transport chain and the mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation coupled to it are disrupted [12, 13]. The energy released during the electron transfer is not sufficient to uphold the proton motive force across the inner mitochondrial membrane, lowering its membrane potential and dissipating the energy from the proton motive force as heat rather that producing ATP from ADP. To generate the previous proton motive force and the quantity of ATP, the amount of electron transfer must be increased and in consequence more substrate, more oxygen and more stored energy from the cells are consumed [14]. This supports the theory that 7-keto-DHEA promotes fat burning to gain energy by stimulating the fatty acyl CoA oxidase, which is the major enzyme in the oxidation of fatty acids [11]."
So, this suggests that enhancement of fatty acid oxidation is the underlying mechanism behind 7 keto's effects. If that is the case, then hair loss could indeed be a side effect due to hair follicles having strict energy requirements that FAO can't meet, like is seen with keto diets and obese people.
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@engineer Thanks. I think those main effects are fine, when 7-keto and other downstream metabolites are taken care of by the system, when in good health /metabolic status; controlled in other words. My earlier caution is precisely why Peat also didn't favor these metabolites much as supplemental. So I say to you guys, be careful.
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@engineer No I haven't ordered. I have some other things to try before. But it's definitely on my list.
Let us know how it goes!Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio Ordered! It should arrive in a few days.
What other things were you going to try out?
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@engineer I've ordered phytol, which also has androgenic properties.
And maybe vitex Agnus castus and tetrahydrocurcumin.Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio ok, I've now received the bottle.
First impressions:
- The measured dropper system is nice but different to Idealabs where it's by drop, while here it goes in 0.25mL increments.
- The smell is terrible, like hospital disinfectant bad. However, it seems to have a slight aroma of something good added.
- The liquid is clear and slightly thicker than the Idealabs ethanol equivalent. This makes it better when applying because it doesn't want to flow as much on the skin.
- I couldn't decide how much to use (it's $70 for a small bottle) so I started with 0.25mL on my inner elbow like I've done with Idealabs supplements in the past. If we believe the concentration then this should be 20mg.
- Due to the formula with tons of added ingredients (but with overall structure similar to the Idealabs version once again) it's possible the absorption is good enough to not leave visible crystals on the skin. I can't see any other than a slight shimmer even with a flashlight.
- I can't report any anabolic or androgenic effects yet because I only put it on a few minutes ago.
Now, the big question is whether it actually contains 11 keto T or not. Is there some way I could test it without spectroscopy like getting actual lab rats and trying it on them?
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@engineer said in 11KT - 11-keto-Testosterone:
Due to the formula with tons of added ingredients (but with overall structure similar to the Idealabs version once again) it's possible the absorption is good enough to not leave visible crystals on the skin. I can't see any other than a slight shimmer even with a flashlight.
great report.
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@engineer thanks for the update . Let us know how it goes.
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I'm now trying a simple 1mL a day with 0.5mL rubbed on each arm. If we're to believe the concentration of 85mg/mL then that should be 85mg a day, but let's say the actual absorbed amount is something low like 40mg. If 11kT is roughly equivalent to regular T then that's a pretty good amount. I'll try this until at at least Tuesday (4 days in total) and see what happens then because at that point there is a different, closely related hormone supplement I'm considering trying.
Note that from many other forum posts, it looks like others are often using 1.5mL daily. Maybe I should try that instead?
Also, here's something interesting. I also take 40mg of 6 keto p4 a day which costs $40/(360mg/40mg) = $4.44. 1.5mL of 11 keto T would be $70/(30/1.5) = $3.5. Maybe I could replace the 6 keto with this XI-KT stuff instead? It seems like it could actually be more effective if we assumed a worst case scenario of a 60mg T equivalence, roughly equivalent itself to 90mg of 6 keto p4.
