Posts made by babou

I am also concerned about the proposed increases in nuclear energy. It seems like just as there's some political progress on food contamination, now we are diving headlong into the next great chronic health destroyer. Seems like it's a never ending cycle with modern society, starting with the abject air and water pollution of early industrialism.

@Sunniva interesting quotes at that link. Peat seems to suggest that organisms like oranges and cows serve as filters for heavy elements and therefore water that has passed through them and become juice or milk is safer than straight water, at least from tropical or coastal sources. With the bulk of oranges coming from semitropical and coastal places like Florida I wonder how deuterium content in commercial oj stacks up to the local water here, as I am fairly far north, decently inland, and near some mountains though still on a side of them that does not block weather exposure from the coast.

Milk from inland dairy farms would seem to perhaps be the lowest deuterium beverage commonly available to people.

It's all very interesting, but I think focusing on compounds like this where your options for avoiding it pretty severely limit you would ultimately be a restrictive and stressful mindset that may not make it worth the potential upsides. Managing your health really is a cost benefit game theory type thing were you have to carefully manage priorities to leverage maximum benefit from the least intrusive/demanding interventions.

@pannacottas Interesting, the interaction with T is one of the things I was very curious about since some of the studies I looked at showed a dramatic decrease in T when using DHT. It seems that the nuances of SHBG are a little bit of a blind spot that I should remedy. As far as I can tell currently, there's disagreement over whether a high or low level is preferable. The traditional bodybuilding crowd believes you want shbg low because you want androgens to be in the free form, while there seems to be a strain of thought in the bioenergetic sphere that low SHBG may indicate a poorly functioning liver, and more radically, the binding of SHBG to a hormone doesn't deactivate but regulates/potentiates it. I'm not sure which is closer to the truth.

I strongly believe the scalp issues that appeared/worsened with DHT were results of liver stress since that is what has usually caused me scalp problems in the past. If DHT hogged all my SHBG, would that mean a greater amount of test, estrogen, and other hormones would be passing through liver for deactivation or excretion? The studies I read showed a dramatic decline in T after a while on DHT, so the T first becoming free T and then being basically dumped out would make sense.

It seems like every second post I see on health Twitter lately comes from this new crew of people who are really fixated on not eating carbs in winter because supposedly it dramatically increases deuterium which is toxic to mitochondria. The thesis is something like eat a lot of fruit when you get a lot of sun, eat a lot of fat in winter because ketosis in lower light/heat circumstances yields more "metabolic water" which is relatively deuterium free and promotes mitochondrial decoupling.

I mean, afaict it's not a terrible thesis and I do agree that light is more important than many give credit for. However the fixation on a single substance (deuterium) sets off my diet cult/fad radar. I'm also skeptical of favoring fat oxidation even if cyclically.

What also throws me is that despite the basis of their ideas being about promoting mitochondrial health and they really are pretty "bioenergetic" on the face of it, they are constantly loudly countersignalling and ridiculing the general peat crowd. Have you all encountered this too? Did it all start with some influencer or crowd of influencers? What do you think of the thesis itself, internet pettiness dynamics not considered?

@basebolt I just measured 30 drops per 1 ml when squeezing the nipple enough to make the drop fully descend. You may be right that my napkin math underestimated the mg per drop, however I wasn't really taking a full ML and then measuring drops from it, instead I was filling the dropper to 0.1 ml and then dropping out either half or all of that depending on the day. 0.1 ml should still be 10 mg if the conversion calculator I used was right so eyeballing half that amount on days when I took <10mg doses should yield about the doses I recorded.

@Kilgore Is it permitted to say on the forum? It was the Australian lab thats been recommended a few times on reddit and the old forum

@pannacottas I'm fully aware that there are lots of lifestyle factors remaining to optimize. My current biggest focuses are optimizing light intake, movement/mobility, and amino profile of protein intake. In fact protein intake and balance and possibly vitamin E are probably the only things on that checklist from Peat that are not where I'd like it to be. I get plenty of D, Mag, and Calcium.

I knew that DHT wasn't gonna be the silver bullet for the health goals I outlined, in fact I mostly outlined them in order to explain that this experiment is very much a tangent driven by curiosity and illustrate what my "exit condition" would be if DHT had an actively detrimental effect on those goals. I understood from reading others experiences and the literature that the primary benefits of DHT are a neurological calming effect and an antagonistic effect to estrogen and aromatization.

My DHEA doses are also usually low, about 1mg a day and never above 5, and I increased them over the duration of this experiment because subjectively it felt better to take a ratio of dhea:dht that favored dhea. The 20s may be when DHEA peaks, but an individual's peak of production doesn't necessarily mean that's the maximum amount that would benefit them or the maximal amount they can use for androgenic pathways. When taking those small amounts of dhea I did not have any of the mental hypersexuality or any other negative symptoms that emerged with the DHT experiment.

You say DHEA supplemented in one's 20s would go almost exclusively to estrogen - wouldn't this be less the case when it's accompanied with a significant amount of progesterone both from direct supplementation and from conversion from pregnenolone? IIRC the logic for pairing DHEA with Preg is that preg and its metabolites should inhibit conversion into estrogen.

You say a higher DHT dose would be better - perhaps I will resume the experiment with a higher dose and no other hormones to see, but currently it seems to me that I was getting good results on the prior youth hormone-only stack and that some unfavorable side effects emerged only with the addition of DHT, so is part of your thesis that the DHT is interacting with the youth hormones in a way that increases estrogenic effects? Nothing I have read gave indication that this is a possibility. Or are you saying that my DHT dose was low enough that matching it in a 1:1 ratio with DHEA allowed the DHEA to aromatize without sufficient opposition from the DHT? Again that would be strange considering the reported and touted very strong anti-estrogenic effect of DHT.

I understand the viewpoint that all the no-risk things should be ticked off first and then escalate from there. But my personal opportunity cost and risk profile calculations at this point favor experimentation, even if pretty fringe. I know that solid sustainable results take time, and even just setting up the habits/environments that produce those changes takes a lot of time and energy. My general trajectory is solidly positive for a significant amount of time now. I'm just a very curious person and I wanted to dip my toe into, frankly, recreational steroid usage and see if I could do so without compromising my progress from other sources. At this point I'm over a week out from my last post and last dose and I feel totally normal and good, so I consider the experiment a success on that front

@milo7 So that would be about 24 mg a day for you? Do you plan to continue? If you keep going a while, you should update us as I'm curious how effects would look with long term dosage yet I'm not personally willing to try a long term cycle due to the reasons outlined in this thread.

@babou Day 11 June 2
Did not at all result in shorter sleep: woke up at 1130 after solid 10 hours of dreamless sleep.
Ejaculated around 12. Partially retained. Sperm quality normal/high. Sensation of orgasm slightly lower than usual. No mood or energy crash afterwards.

3 pm: energy steady but not high. Body comp improved compared to yesterday.

I believe I am going to suspend the experiment now and take a few days or possibly weeks off all hormones except thyroid and possibly some pregnenolone "to taste." I believe I have a decent idea now of what dht does and doesn't do for me. On the whole I'd say I'm not in love with it and the negatives slightly outweigh the positives. I'm curious to see if there will be lingering positive or negative effects after stopping and if those would be strong enough to change my opinion to sharply positive or negative, but I don't see much evidence currently why that would be the case. I also note that the positive effects felt at first diminished over the course of these 10 days while the negative effects remained about the same or became slightly worse. I suspect that this small cycle even if not enough to make the raw amount in circulation unphysiological was still enough to create an unphysiological ratio.

The return of dandruff is also a powerful negative sign to me and I do believe if dosage was higher and the cycle longer, I would start to shed hair

@babou

Day 10 June 1

No dht during day today. 3-6 mg of pansterone spread over day, 2 or 3 drops tyromix spread. Mood, libido high, energy fairly high, erection quality still down compared to pre dht, body comp diminished from highs during supplementation.

Midnight before bed: 24 drops pansterone, 8 drops preg, 14 drops progest, 15-20 mg DHT. Trying to see if I can recreate effect from first night where I got a full restful night of sleep in only 6 hours. Smell of both hormone and dmso carrier strong and less subjectively pleasant than previously.

@babou
Day 9 may 31

1140 am 1 drop tyromix 3 drops pansterone 2 drops preg. 1 drop DHT; experiment with tiny doses spread out instead of concentrated?

Poor sleep and not an easy wake up, slept in late because went to bed late. Congested and runny nose today, seasonal allergies likely.

4 pm, 3 drop pansterone, 2 preg, 2 prog, 1 mg dht.

Breathing reaction persists even at this tiny dose? Hard to tell.

9 pm 3 drops pan 2 drops preg 2 drops prog 1 drop tyromix 1 1/2-2 drops dht.

No noticeable changes until bed a few hours later

@babou

Interlude: my thoughts and evaluation after 1 week, plus considerations for continuing, changing, or suspending the experiment.

First, I will say the most potent and noticeable effects for me of the DHT are that it increases appetite and has a considerable slimming/de-fattening or at least de-bloating effect. I believe people on the old forum were referring to a dht dominant physique as being reminiscent of classical Greek depictions of the ideal male body.

The mental and emotional effects are very interesting and I can't really class them as solidly negative or positive. In isolation DHT seems to promote a kind of disembodied calmness and "rational preparation for violence." During one of my walks I found myself ruminating on how I could manage certain knife or gun defense scenarios which is out of the ordinary for me. I think I have to say subjectively I do not enjoy this state of mind as it feels blunted. However when paired with equal ratios of other hormones the emotional effect of DHT is quite different. Today was the first day I tried the combo of dht with progesterone and the mood boost was considerable and enjoyable. DHT and progest combo seems to promote optimism. For my future doses I will be trying progest again to see if that's a reliably reproducible effect of the combo.

Also regarding pairings, I find at least a 1:1 ratio of dht to pansterone (making it 1:1:1 dht:dhea:preg) gives significantly better energy and mood results than just dht. I may try ratios that significantly favor pansterone and evaluate how those feel.

Ultimately, so far my experience with DHT has been very interesting and enlightening and it has been surprising that the positive effects have not been any of the effects that I was expecting. I am not experiencing the sexual benefits I was hoping for and even though my "mental libido" has been high (ie high desire to look at women, think about women, etc) the physical libido does not match and erection frequency and quality actually seems to be a little lower than normal. I would prefer the situation reversed as I find "mental libido" distracting and fruitless. That being said, my girlfriend and I are long distance so I am not having any real sex. It could be interesting to see if/how the sexual effects of DHT would be different when she and I are together and consistently sexually active.

On the one hand, DHT is seeming quite pro metabolic because of the appetite boost, as well as making me feel quite warm and limber. However the way it seems to lower my physical libido and the way that upon application my breathing tends to become slightly more strained makes me suspicious of what might be going on. One possibility is that I have a sensitivity to DMSO which I have heard of a few people having or developing. Another possibility is that the powerful anti fat effect is releasing too many free fatty acids into my bloodstream and some of the slightly negative symptoms like slight lethargy on some days (but not others?) are downstream of that. Certainly DHT makes you burn through sugar and need more.

I may continue a low dose for a little while just since I have this big bottle, and if I do so I will be doing it in ratios that fairly strongly favor the more traditional peaty hormones. After dipping my toes in like this I am curious to try normal testosterone as well and see how it compares. I am also strongly curious to acquire some vitamin E and see how it interacts and if it potentiates these androgens alongside all it's other positive effects. I would actually really like to get some test and/or dht powder and dissolve it in some E myself as the premade dmso mix is pretty pricey and I would like to try alternate solvents in case the dmso is what's bothering me and causing some of the undesirable symptoms.

@babou

Day 8 may 30
3 pm
10 mg dht, 10 drops pansterone, 4 drops preg, 6 drops progesterone.

Dmso taste very noticeable in mouth. Sinuses actually cleared instead of clogged in response. Libido has been high all day, will see if that changes.

330 - feeling mentally alert, energized, motivated. Sense of time moving slightly slower.

Slight shakiness in left hand noticeable.

350: wondering if I haven't been getting maximum benefit due to cholesterol lowering with supps, esp thyroid, plus eating less fat than usual - in past a large source of both fat and protein for me has been cooked eggs, lately I get more protein from dairy and shrimp since eggs are no longer very appetizing to me, which I suspect indicates slight sensitivity to allergens in the whites. Just took 2 raw egg yolks. Stomach slightly bothered for like 10 mins.

430 - went to park for sunny barefoot walk. On drive over, enjoyed aggressive music. I strongly favored aggressive music in my teen years but in last few years began favoring more chill, ambient, or instrumental music. When pulling into parking lot, spontaneous feeling of optimism and confidence surfaced in the form of a quick idle fantasy of actually becoming a fighter pilot.

During walk, feeling at peace and joyful.

Go to mall afterwards, extremely strange occurrence:

Apparently the mall was closed but the gate into the mall from the attached Target store wasn't shut so I wandered in. There were a couple like teens or young guys or something also around this entrance area and a mall cop corralling people out acting pretty exasperated about it. He's just saying "malls closed guys" And one of the "youths" says "shut your bitch ass up that's like the tenth time you've said it" and that got me angry, uncharacteristically so. So I turn around and because I'm heated I didn't think through what to say or enunciate well and what came out was "bro you're really gonna be a little faggot to the mall cop like that?" But I don't know who specifically said it to him because I was on my way out the door and the commotion was behind me. Anyway the the person closest to me when I said it was like a fat 13-15 year old and he thought I was talking to him directly and I don't even know if I was because I don't know who said it, but he looked scared and confused, and now looking back logically it was probably the older lankier dudes further behind us. I felt very bad and guilty about essentially calling a probably innocent kid a faggot. This whole episode was kind of rattling to me after I left because I am habitually a very chill personable guy. Since everyone was gone before I processed what I said or would be able to apologize I donated 20 bucks to the local homeless shelter as kind of a sacrifice as I do believe roughly in some kind of accountability to the Gods for justice and virtue.

I believe this is something I would not have done if I was not taking DHT and it's very interesting to observe how hormones change things about our behavior that we habitually attribute to an abstract and fairly immutable personality. I also think I wouldn't have felt as guilty if the person who caught my remark was older and I was more certain of their guilt and I feel I might have even escalated if they engaged. However even if the kid was the one who said that shit to the mall cop it would still be unbecoming and irresponsible for an adult to speak like that to a minor and it's concerning that my better judgment was suspended like that. Maybe that's just par for the course when you're trying to recreate the hormonal environment of youth or adolescence though.

@babou Day 7 may 29 - over illness mostly, still some chest congestion and a little less energetic than usual. libido returning. Some head tightness.

2 pm, 10 drops pansterone, 2 drops preg, 1 drop tyromix, 4-6 mg DHT.

Breathing through nose immediately became slightly more difficult. Dmso taste in back of throat slightly irritating.

Libido up, again more mental than physical. Trouble focusing on other things.

3-4 pm, very long walk cleared sinuses and energy levels.

7-9 pm, got very absorbed in game dev work, became obsessive about fixing 1 bug and hit my head against it for too long until finding the solution hidden in a menu that I just had to drag and drop shit to

9 pm - very noticeable ringing in ears, which is extremely rare for me, what the hell.

Ringing gone naturally after a few minutes.
Maybe from taking ibuprofen past days?
Took spray magnesium later in night.

@babou

Day 6 may 28 - again no dht dose, still under weather. Throat healed but now congested, low energy, not sociable at work. Body comp diminished but not severely. Libido slowly returning, more emotionally/mentally than physically.

@babou Day 5 may 27 - wicked sore throat starting last night. Sore throat was triggered by smoke from firepit. Possibility that allergies are prolonging it. No libido all day. Will not be dosing any dht today just to be careful considering how dmso was slightly bothering throat.

Energy and focus poor all day. Might be sick honestly, something was going around schools and family are teachers and students. Still worth noting because I very rarely get cold-like illnesses, maybe once a year or every 2 years, symptoms usually throat and sinus instead of fever or headache etc.

@babou
Day 4 may 26
On waking, high quality morning erection, but only after stimulation.

Came once around 11 am, second time about 3. First time partly retained, second not at all. Quality of ejaculate slightly lower than usual. 1 drop tyromix near waking, 2 drops pansterone.

3 pm, 10-15 mg dht, 8 drops pansterone, 2 drops progest, 4 drops preg, 1 drop tyromix
Again immediate slight degradation of breathing quality. Slight hand shakiness, probably from high caffeine today though.

330, moderate physical activity carrying mulch. Physical, emotional state steady and kind of blunted. Feeling lucid but slightly disembodied.

Notice that productivity in mental work is down, but productivity with manual work is fine/higher than normal. Likely could be explained by sleep schedule skewing later currently due to college semester ending.

4-6 pm, at work, good mood and sociable. Steady high-ish energy. At 530, spontaneous feeling of gratitude for people around me.

7 pm, slightly less energized.

9 pm, libido returned, but more mental than physical

Midnight, 3rd ejaculation, involuntary, ejaculate quality lowish like prior but honestly not bad for being the 3rd of the day. Did not crash hard after.

@babou

Day 3 may 25
340pm 10mg dht, 5 drops pansterone, 4 drops preg, 1 drop tyromix. 1 drop oxidal, 20mg zinc. Energizing effect immediate. Slight dmso taste detectable. Breathing very slightly more labored? Hard to tell. Very slight testes tightness?

430 pm at work, feeling low energy fairly unmotivated, hand eye coordination worse than usual.
By 6 pm, energy and mood stable and in the mid high range.

@babou
Day 2 may 24 - 230 pm, 4 small drops amounting to probably about 5 ml. Slight discomfort breathing reminiscent of allergies, dmso bothering liver? Noticing some dandruff return. Took 2 drops pansterone and 1/4 aspirin tab (Abt 100mg), relief immediate. No noticeable effects otherwise, energy and mood slightly lower than usual or than yesterday. Possible culprit: no tyromix yet today, usually have 1-2 drops. Maybe effects could be more pronounced if T was higher?

7 pm, 1 drop tyromix, 2 drops pansterone, 1 drop progesterone, ~10-20 mg zinc. Effects not noticeable before sleeping.

@babou
Day 1 may 23 -

Woke up feeling steady and energized on 6 hours sleep - very rare, I usually need 8.

noonish, took abt 10 mL dht w 5 drops pansterone and 2-4 drops preg, again w coco lotion. Libido and sensitivity both subjectively high, however this is also second day of retaining semen. Body comp and definition feel high. Most noticeable effect so far is increased appetite.

7 pm, ~10 mL, 2 drops pansterone, ~5 drops preg, 3 drops K2.
Not much immediate effect noticeable except dick staying soft, very very slight "tightness" in balls and taint? Similar to androsterone reaction.

No significant libido change later in day. Body comp still felt very good, especially reduction of bloating in face. Went to gym at 10:30, had significant endurance, steady energy, strength.