Epitestosterone, premature balding, and "male PCOS"
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@insufferable this is quite interesting.
EpiT is 5AR inhibitor. I wonder how useful it would be in taking if it could be acquired. Is it known to inhibit hpg axis?
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@risingfire I would imagine not. Most pharmaceutical anti-androgens (at least those that block the androgen receptor itself - for example bicalutamide) actually increase levels of circulating androgens because the hypothalamus androgen receptors are also "blocked" and as such the hypothalamus "thinks" that there are no androgens in serum.
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@saturnuscv thank you
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Supposedly you can increase epitestosterone by topically applying 7-keto-DHEA. I doubt applying it to the scalp would do anything, but if I can get the 7-keto-DHEA to dissolve, I'll put some on my scalp and on my navel/stomach and see what happens.
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@Gaston do keep us updated on that. I want to try 7kDHEA but I don’t want to make anything worse.
My hair is not too bad at the moment but since stopping progesterone I have been shedding more than usual. I’m close to just giving up on exogenous steroids and thyroid+cholesterol+bloomaxxing because every time I introduce some kind to steroid it either greatly aggravates shedding (Pansterone) or makes me feel and look like shite (Cortinon)
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Thanks for those papers! 57% of those who are already bald by age 45 have metabolic syndrome compared to 14% of non-bald 43 year olds. That's an impressive result.
@Gaston said in Epitestosterone, premature balding, and "male PCOS":
Supposedly you can increase epitestosterone by topically applying 7-keto-DHEA. I doubt applying it to the scalp would do anything, but if I can get the 7-keto-DHEA to dissolve, I'll put some on my scalp and on my navel/stomach and see what happens.
Interesting! Where did you find that out? I couldn't find anything about it.
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@insufferable
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/CCLM.2005.038/html
I came across it in one of Hans' articles.
https://testonation.com/2022/01/17/7-keto-dhea-what-you-need-to-know-fat-loss-thyroid-androgens-etc/
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@Gaston Awesome, thank you! That's the first place I've seen any mention of an epiT increase.
~12% testosterone decrease, ~80% epitestosterone increase.
I know nothing about 7-keto-DHEA. Do you have any idea why it would do that?
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@insufferable
I can't say that I understand the mechanism, no. But that's not going to stop me from recklessly experimenting! -
@Gaston You might be on to something.
I remember when taking 7ketoDHEA my hairloss was decreased. It is pretty safe to experiment with.it is not water soluble though.
"7 Keto DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) is a white crystalline powder. It is very soluble in warm methanol, soluble in ethanol, and not soluble in water. Micronized so that 90% of particles are less than 20 μm."
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I am going to try to dissolve a few mg of 7ketoDHEA in alcohol and apply it to my scalp.
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The whole section under anti-andrigenic activity really doesnt sound good...
But if it is only locally in the scalp, it might be ok.
The difference of epitestosterone in the scalp between balding and non-balding fasthers is huge. Non-balding fathers have an almost 6 times lower Testosterone/ epitestosterone ratio in the scalp.
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This is how I attempted to dissolve the powder:
7-Keto-DHEA
300mg powder
1/2 oz. dropper bottle
~15% isopropyl myristate (I don't think this is necessary, but I had some left over from dissolving DHEA powder)
~80% ethanol
(~5% powder)
~300 drops
~1mg per dropIt didn't fully dissolve, but that's because there are excipients in the capsule like silicon dioxide and magnesium stearate. I don't think that there exists a commercially available source of pure 7-Keto-DHEA powder.
When I apply 10mg to my navel I get sleepy as heck, but that could also be because I'm laying down when I do it lol
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@Gaston it’s anti-cortisol and doesn’t supply a substrate to make estrogen so feeling sleepy is not unusual.
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@insufferable and how to cure PCOS?
Inositol??
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it won't work topically??
Effects of transdermal application of 7-oxo-DHEA on the levels of steroid hormones, gonadotropins and lipids in healthy men.
Sulcová J1, Hill M, Masek Z, Ceska R, Novácek A, Hampl R, Stárka L.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11300231 -
W wester130 referenced this topic on Jul 17, 2024, 8:00 AM
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@saturnuscv I now think men could try licorice, vitex and spearmint and schisandra
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8140208/
testosterone is "bad" when it is out of control
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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16462145/
licorice reduced dhea-s
stinging nettles reduced cortisol too