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Epitestosterone, premature balding, and "male PCOS"

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  • B
    basednigga2006
    last edited by basednigga2006 Mar 7, 2024, 10:24 PM Mar 7, 2024, 10:21 PM

    Interesting papers

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13555-022-00799-7

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1578219010706247?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=860df7025e458b43

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    • G
      Gaston
      last edited by Mar 7, 2024, 10:40 PM

      Supposedly you can increase epitestosterone by topically applying 7-keto-DHEA. I doubt applying it to the scalp would do anything, but if I can get the 7-keto-DHEA to dissolve, I'll put some on my scalp and on my navel/stomach and see what happens.

      S I M 3 Replies Last reply Mar 8, 2024, 1:02 AM Reply Quote 0
      • S
        saturnuscv @Gaston
        last edited by saturnuscv Mar 8, 2024, 1:02 AM Mar 8, 2024, 1:02 AM

        @Gaston do keep us updated on that. I want to try 7kDHEA but I don’t want to make anything worse.

        My hair is not too bad at the moment but since stopping progesterone I have been shedding more than usual. I’m close to just giving up on exogenous steroids and thyroid+cholesterol+bloomaxxing because every time I introduce some kind to steroid it either greatly aggravates shedding (Pansterone) or makes me feel and look like shite (Cortinon)

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        • I
          Insr @Gaston
          last edited by Mar 8, 2024, 12:03 PM

          Thanks for those papers! 57% of those who are already bald by age 45 have metabolic syndrome compared to 14% of non-bald 43 year olds. That's an impressive result.

          @Gaston said in Epitestosterone, premature balding, and "male PCOS":

          Supposedly you can increase epitestosterone by topically applying 7-keto-DHEA. I doubt applying it to the scalp would do anything, but if I can get the 7-keto-DHEA to dissolve, I'll put some on my scalp and on my navel/stomach and see what happens.

          Interesting! Where did you find that out? I couldn't find anything about it.

          G 1 Reply Last reply Mar 8, 2024, 7:53 PM Reply Quote 0
          • G
            Gaston @Insr
            last edited by Mar 8, 2024, 7:53 PM

            @insufferable

            https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/CCLM.2005.038/html

            I came across it in one of Hans' articles.

            https://testonation.com/2022/01/17/7-keto-dhea-what-you-need-to-know-fat-loss-thyroid-androgens-etc/

            I 1 Reply Last reply Mar 9, 2024, 12:39 PM Reply Quote 0
            • I
              Insr @Gaston
              last edited by Mar 9, 2024, 12:39 PM

              @Gaston Awesome, thank you! That's the first place I've seen any mention of an epiT increase.

              ~12% testosterone decrease, ~80% epitestosterone increase.

              I know nothing about 7-keto-DHEA. Do you have any idea why it would do that?

              G 1 Reply Last reply Mar 9, 2024, 9:42 PM Reply Quote 0
              • G
                Gaston @Insr
                last edited by Mar 9, 2024, 9:42 PM

                @insufferable
                I can't say that I understand the mechanism, no. But that's not going to stop me from recklessly experimenting!

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                • M
                  Mauritio @Gaston
                  last edited by Mar 10, 2024, 11:03 AM

                  @Gaston You might be on to something.
                  I remember when taking 7ketoDHEA my hairloss was decreased. It is pretty safe to experiment with.

                  it is not water soluble though.

                  "7 Keto DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) is a white crystalline powder. It is very soluble in warm methanol, soluble in ethanol, and not soluble in water. Micronized so that 90% of particles are less than 20 μm."

                  Dare to think.

                  My X:
                  x.com/Metabolicmonstr

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                  • M
                    Mauritio
                    last edited by Mar 10, 2024, 3:46 PM

                    I am going to try to dissolve a few mg of 7ketoDHEA in alcohol and apply it to my scalp.

                    Dare to think.

                    My X:
                    x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                    G 1 Reply Last reply Mar 10, 2024, 9:09 PM Reply Quote 0
                    • M
                      Mauritio
                      last edited by Mar 10, 2024, 3:57 PM

                      The whole section under anti-andrigenic activity really doesnt sound good...

                      But if it is only locally in the scalp, it might be ok.

                      The difference of epitestosterone in the scalp between balding and non-balding fasthers is huge. Non-balding fathers have an almost 6 times lower Testosterone/ epitestosterone ratio in the scalp.

                      Dare to think.

                      My X:
                      x.com/Metabolicmonstr

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                      • G
                        Gaston @Mauritio
                        last edited by Mar 10, 2024, 9:09 PM

                        @Mauritio

                        This is how I attempted to dissolve the powder:

                        7-Keto-DHEA
                        300mg powder
                        1/2 oz. dropper bottle
                        ~15% isopropyl myristate (I don't think this is necessary, but I had some left over from dissolving DHEA powder)
                        ~80% ethanol
                        (~5% powder)
                        ~300 drops
                        ~1mg per drop

                        It didn't fully dissolve, but that's because there are excipients in the capsule like silicon dioxide and magnesium stearate. I don't think that there exists a commercially available source of pure 7-Keto-DHEA powder.

                        When I apply 10mg to my navel I get sleepy as heck, but that could also be because I'm laying down when I do it lol

                        S W 2 Replies Last reply Mar 11, 2024, 7:50 AM Reply Quote 0
                        • S
                          saturnuscv @Gaston
                          last edited by Mar 11, 2024, 7:50 AM

                          @Gaston it’s anti-cortisol and doesn’t supply a substrate to make estrogen so feeling sleepy is not unusual.

                          W 1 Reply Last reply Mar 4, 2025, 7:48 PM Reply Quote 0
                          • W
                            wester130 @Insr
                            last edited by Jun 20, 2024, 6:34 PM

                            @insufferable and how to cure PCOS?

                            Inositol??

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                            • W
                              wester130 @Gaston
                              last edited by wester130 Jul 7, 2024, 4:54 PM Jul 7, 2024, 4:42 PM

                              @Gaston

                              it won't work topically??

                              Effects of transdermal application of 7-oxo-DHEA on the levels of steroid hormones, gonadotropins and lipids in healthy men.
                              Sulcová J1, Hill M, Masek Z, Ceska R, Novácek A, Hampl R, Stárka L.
                              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11300231

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                              • W wester130 referenced this topic on Jul 17, 2024, 8:00 AM
                              • W
                                wester130 @saturnuscv
                                last edited by Mar 4, 2025, 7:48 PM

                                @saturnuscv I now think men could try licorice, vitex and spearmint and schisandra

                                https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8140208/

                                testosterone is "bad" when it is out of control

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                                • W
                                  wester130 @Insr
                                  last edited by wester130 Mar 9, 2025, 11:41 PM Mar 9, 2025, 11:15 PM

                                  @Insr

                                  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16462145/

                                  licorice reduced dhea-s

                                  stinging nettles reduced cortisol too

                                  https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8959287/

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