Discipline is not a choice. The universe chose some to win and others to be supporting players.
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@Bob-Thedestroyer If you are not doing this everyday what are you doing with your life.
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@milkgains_bro no ironically, I will follow this protocol
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from my experience, I suggest that if we enjoy what we do, and/or that we know from experience or instincts that the action and its result will benefit us relatively to our state and the degree of energy invested, we need 0 discipline to do it
discipline is not a virtue in itself, and it can commonly be a net negative, and be associated with a lower degree of energy, relaxation, well-being, sovereignty, and a higher degree of conformity to the ideas and/or expectations of others, even when it is not optimal for us
There are many examples, both in humans and animals, where little movement and/or less movement relative to others is associated with a higher degree of energy, relaxation, well-being, growth, longevity, fertility
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I don't think Michael Jordon was disciplined. I think he was dedicated because he loved it and had a unique athleticism that made it highly enjoyable for him.
The motivation industry pushes reductionist ideas and paternalistic lecturing, they treat everything as a behavioral concern or attitude problem. I'm sure it makes them feel great about themselves. Our attitudes are a direct reflection of our health you can't really just change them, you can delude yourself though.
Energy is everything. Get that sorted and there's no need to force yourself to do anything.
Society is made up of word games and mental tricks dispensed by authority figures, PR liars, moron psychologist posers etc that function to keep you down. Laziness is actually fatigue, a biological problem.
Discipline is the domain of authoritarian institutions such as the military and the school system or BDSM practitioners.
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@Hando-Jin said in Discipline is not a choice. The universe chose some to win and others to be supporting players.:
I don't think Michael Jordon was disciplined. I think he was dedicated because he loved it and had a unique athleticism that made it highly enjoyable for him.
Came here to say this. Jordan was obsessed with winning and had that aura that when you met him in the playoffs, your season was about to end.
But he had gambling problems, cheated on his wife, drank and smoke, never practiced in the summer in his later years and just played golf and gambled, punched teammates in practice, bullied other people etc. I wouldn't necessarily call him a disciplined person.
Also agree with the rest of the post.
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There is basically three reasons why you lose in competition with others:
- You don't like winning enough for your body to provide you the necessary amount of energy.
- You metabolism is shot and can't provide the necessary energy in the first place. Problem solving can fix this.
- Your hardware (brain, body) doesn't have the capability to do the task well enough. Unfixable except for finding a different task you are better at.
Discipline is a placebo, a red herring. If you have the energy and the will then getting closer towards your goals is unavoidable and relentless. Energy can't be contained, it's the energy that moves the body, not the body that moves the energy.
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I would say you'll have to be 'affraid' of not doing something, instead of having the discipline to do it. You will face times when you'll lack the energetic spirit and only the fear not achieving something/letting yourself down will be enough. Discipline is not just doing something you don't want to do, it's taking the measures that are needed, but at some point you will have to see that not doing it is in fact the worse option. You can't be occupied by things you don't want to do all day, you'll need things that just need to be done and you don't want to think about 'wanting or not wanting'. The correct way of looking at it is one of need and fear, not one of wanting/not wanting. You don't serve your future self by thinking hedonisticly in the present. You are a community of selves spread out across time. You'll need to form an ideal and behave towards it, then no 'discipline' is needed, because you'll know its importance and are terrified of not getting there/letting yourself down. Formulating your ideal is the most important step, few people actively do this. Why would you want to punish yourself with, for example, waking up early for is own sake, when you can wake up early for serving something you really admire/want. You'll decide who you want to be, your actions will show how serious you actually take it.
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Fate is not predetermined, despite it seeming that way. Any person can change their fate if they have the needed experience to.
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@Hando-Jin You got that right!
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@Bob-Thedestroyer This is nonsense bullshit. The whole point of discipline is to push yourself. Discipline is antithetic to blessings. It isn't given, it can be taught, or learned.
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@Ruben Absolutely correct
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I say you are closest to the correct answer here.
All psychological problems have their physiological roots. Address the physiology, the psychology follows.
People with discipline issues are lacking the metabolic energy needed to stay focused on a goal without distractions or losing motivation.
Focus on the metabolic energy input, and the psychological output follows.
Imagine someone with a folate deficiency because of a poor diet or metabolic defect trying to solve their lack of energy or focus through taking ice baths, talk therapy, following alarms, schedules, etc…
All of these things may have their limited utility, but what that person really needs to fix their problem is some fucking folate right into their veins.
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Discipline is quite obviously a choice, e.g., my choice to be on this forum and not sleeping and preparing for a more productive work day tomorrow. That which is not a choice, is the outcome from the application of discipline. And I can see only one way to determine whether a person is one who wins or is just a supporting player – discipline.
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Don't think so. Had heavy metal problems all my life and zero self control. Only have self control if I drink caffeine.
I don't think people do this stuff to themselves.
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@questforhealth It's definitely not my desire to question what troubles and difficulties anyone has endured and which has hindered them from being in the win column. My challenge to this original statement and those who can relate through hardship to the seemingly predestined factors of life, is that the application of discipline, in and of itself, has value – regardless of what the outcome may be.
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That makes sense. With peating now the more I apply discipline the more I start realising there is some mysterious direction in this that steers you towards what is good.
nah i think im just chatting complete rubbish i still have a mild copper deficiency from Charlies advice
