Low dose DHT experiment log
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Here I will be logging my experience taking a low dose of topical DHT alongside some of the other supps that have been in my stack for a while. I already have about the first week written in my notepad so I'll be transcribing that all here now and then updating as the experiment goes on.
Background: I am a mid 20s man in good health by normie standards. I have no specific symptoms I'm looking to treat, though I did in the past and peatosphere recommendations have mostly corrected those: Through my teens and early 20s I was unmotivated, prone to staying up too late, oversleeping, and eating infrequently and in too-large quantities at once. I've always been mentally sharp, emotionally mostly normal if a bit awkward/ mild nerd sperg type shit. From around 2020 to 2022 I developed severe skin issues that were basically an extension of the sebbhoreic dermatitis on my scalp but affecting my face, chest, and groin areas. Hygeine has always been good so wasn't that, and numerous crunchy oils and shit didn't do anything either. These skin issues were finally greatly ameliorated by adding liver to my diet, diminishing the seb derm as well. Through 2022 I did not have any active symptoms but my body composition was shifting more feminine (I have always been around the upper range of good bmi, with body comp being decent in months where I'm physically active for example rowing, and getting poor in times where I'm sedentary like covid era). In 2023 I began to feel existential anxiety and obsession with topics like death and the afterlife. This evaporated when I began supplementing tyromix and progesterone. Since then my emotional state has been excellent, motivation levels moderately high, and body composition moderately androgenous and on the huskier side (i.e. masculine arms, feminine torso, ~20-30% bodyfat).
Basically, I believe I have a history of serotonin dominance since adolescence, and was never significantly hypothyroid but for some reason in the past few years experienced an uptick in pituitary/adrenal activity due to some stressful relationship and life circumstances and poor nutrition and digestive habits.
In the last few months I have added haiduts DHEA/Pregnenolone mix Pansterone, occasionally a little topical preg on its own, and some topical vitamin K to my stack. Since using these I have reduced tyromix dosing and frequency with no negative effects and have experienced further decrease of seb derm on the scalp, plus positive mood and body comp changes (though ive simultaneously increased OJ and gelatin intake so there are many factors at play). Currently I use bloo shampoo and with use every 2-3 days, there is no noticeable dandruff at all, which is significant as I have had consistent dandruff since age ~14 with nothing working to consistently reduce it.
Anyway I know that's a ton of preliminary stuff before I even talk about androgens or why I'm trying DHT but I wanted to give a fairly detailed picture of the state of my physiology so that people who are considering also trying DHT can make a more informed decision based on how their starting point compares to mine.
As far as what my health goals actually are: Ultimately, Ideally, I want to be immortal and young forever. I mean I'm not gonna be torn up if that doesn't happen but I figure to aim for the moon and maybe land among the stars. More realistically, I want to maintain a physiologic state where elation comes easily, it is easy and joyful to live in this body, and I have the time and energy to fully commit myself to my relationships and my many passion projects. As such I am interested in experimenting with ways to reach or hopefully maintain an androgenic state to see if some of the things people report about such a state might be conducive to those goals. Specifically I am interested in mood, resilience, cognitive benefits, athletic and sexual performance and body composition, social and relationship benefits of a youthful masculine appearance, and of course the usual peaty counteracting of estrogen/cortisol/serotonin to protect tissue from stress and degradation.
So, I acquired a solution of 10% DHT in DMSO, following many positive testimonies and favorable studies. To be perfectly honest, I was seeing decent androgenic effects from DHEA, and part of my rationale for wanting to experiment with DHT is specifically the many claims that exist online that it can measurably grow penile tissue. However I've more or less given up on that aspect as I'm not willing to try the large replacement or superphysiological doses that seem to be needed for it; I very much want to avoid HPTA suppression, which is the other part of why I am experimenting with quite low doses. There are so many accounts online that that state directly contradictory things about whether DHT is suppressive, some say "yes, very," some say "not at all in doses below like 50mg." So far I think the conclusion that passes the sniff test based on the studies I've seen and the anectodal claims of no suppression is that DHT isn't gonna like "no russian" your leydig cells but it does lower LH, FSH, and considerably lowers T. Though I cant find a straight answer if it lowers T because your body stops producing it in response to the high DHT presence or if the DHT strongly signals any present T to convert into more DHT, as I believe Haidut or someone has claimed that DHT promotes its own synthesis similarly to progesterone.
Finally before we begin, I'll also say I'm being stupid and flying just by taking close account of my feelings and symptoms and I don't have bloodwork done, and if I was smarter I would have spent 100 big ones on a hormone test instead of a black market bitcoin bought steroid shipped overseas.
Mg conversion of 10% gel: 0.10 mL liquid = 100 mg liquid, 10% DHT = 1mg active dht per 0.01 mL (Abt 1 drop)
Will post each day as a comment for easier organization.
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Day 0 - may 22- arrives in mail 2nd half of day, take some around 8pm; dose indeterminate bc some was leaked on outside of bottle when opening. Dmso smell noticeable. Used dropper to put Abt 5-10 mL on shoulders along with some vitE/coconut/almond oil lotion.
Short term immediate effect - relaxed slight lethargy, not unpleasant but not that pleasant. No immediate positive libido effect, maybe slightly negative.
Mental - took walk after, experienced slight paranoia or readiness for action/agression. Sense of smell noticeably more sensitive.
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@babou
Day 1 may 23 -Woke up feeling steady and energized on 6 hours sleep - very rare, I usually need 8.
noonish, took abt 10 mL dht w 5 drops pansterone and 2-4 drops preg, again w coco lotion. Libido and sensitivity both subjectively high, however this is also second day of retaining semen. Body comp and definition feel high. Most noticeable effect so far is increased appetite.
7 pm, ~10 mL, 2 drops pansterone, ~5 drops preg, 3 drops K2.
Not much immediate effect noticeable except dick staying soft, very very slight "tightness" in balls and taint? Similar to androsterone reaction.No significant libido change later in day. Body comp still felt very good, especially reduction of bloating in face. Went to gym at 10:30, had significant endurance, steady energy, strength.
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@babou
Day 2 may 24 - 230 pm, 4 small drops amounting to probably about 5 ml. Slight discomfort breathing reminiscent of allergies, dmso bothering liver? Noticing some dandruff return. Took 2 drops pansterone and 1/4 aspirin tab (Abt 100mg), relief immediate. No noticeable effects otherwise, energy and mood slightly lower than usual or than yesterday. Possible culprit: no tyromix yet today, usually have 1-2 drops. Maybe effects could be more pronounced if T was higher?7 pm, 1 drop tyromix, 2 drops pansterone, 1 drop progesterone, ~10-20 mg zinc. Effects not noticeable before sleeping.
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Day 3 may 25
340pm 10mg dht, 5 drops pansterone, 4 drops preg, 1 drop tyromix. 1 drop oxidal, 20mg zinc. Energizing effect immediate. Slight dmso taste detectable. Breathing very slightly more labored? Hard to tell. Very slight testes tightness?430 pm at work, feeling low energy fairly unmotivated, hand eye coordination worse than usual.
By 6 pm, energy and mood stable and in the mid high range. -
@babou
Day 4 may 26
On waking, high quality morning erection, but only after stimulation.Came once around 11 am, second time about 3. First time partly retained, second not at all. Quality of ejaculate slightly lower than usual. 1 drop tyromix near waking, 2 drops pansterone.
3 pm, 10-15 mg dht, 8 drops pansterone, 2 drops progest, 4 drops preg, 1 drop tyromix
Again immediate slight degradation of breathing quality. Slight hand shakiness, probably from high caffeine today though.330, moderate physical activity carrying mulch. Physical, emotional state steady and kind of blunted. Feeling lucid but slightly disembodied.
Notice that productivity in mental work is down, but productivity with manual work is fine/higher than normal. Likely could be explained by sleep schedule skewing later currently due to college semester ending.
4-6 pm, at work, good mood and sociable. Steady high-ish energy. At 530, spontaneous feeling of gratitude for people around me.
7 pm, slightly less energized.
9 pm, libido returned, but more mental than physical
Midnight, 3rd ejaculation, involuntary, ejaculate quality lowish like prior but honestly not bad for being the 3rd of the day. Did not crash hard after.
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@babou Day 5 may 27 - wicked sore throat starting last night. Sore throat was triggered by smoke from firepit. Possibility that allergies are prolonging it. No libido all day. Will not be dosing any dht today just to be careful considering how dmso was slightly bothering throat.
Energy and focus poor all day. Might be sick honestly, something was going around schools and family are teachers and students. Still worth noting because I very rarely get cold-like illnesses, maybe once a year or every 2 years, symptoms usually throat and sinus instead of fever or headache etc.
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Day 6 may 28 - again no dht dose, still under weather. Throat healed but now congested, low energy, not sociable at work. Body comp diminished but not severely. Libido slowly returning, more emotionally/mentally than physically.
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@babou Day 7 may 29 - over illness mostly, still some chest congestion and a little less energetic than usual. libido returning. Some head tightness.
2 pm, 10 drops pansterone, 2 drops preg, 1 drop tyromix, 4-6 mg DHT.
Breathing through nose immediately became slightly more difficult. Dmso taste in back of throat slightly irritating.
Libido up, again more mental than physical. Trouble focusing on other things.
3-4 pm, very long walk cleared sinuses and energy levels.
7-9 pm, got very absorbed in game dev work, became obsessive about fixing 1 bug and hit my head against it for too long until finding the solution hidden in a menu that I just had to drag and drop shit to
9 pm - very noticeable ringing in ears, which is extremely rare for me, what the hell.
Ringing gone naturally after a few minutes.
Maybe from taking ibuprofen past days?
Took spray magnesium later in night. -
Day 8 may 30
3 pm
10 mg dht, 10 drops pansterone, 4 drops preg, 6 drops progesterone.Dmso taste very noticeable in mouth. Sinuses actually cleared instead of clogged in response. Libido has been high all day, will see if that changes.
330 - feeling mentally alert, energized, motivated. Sense of time moving slightly slower.
Slight shakiness in left hand noticeable.
350: wondering if I haven't been getting maximum benefit due to cholesterol lowering with supps, esp thyroid, plus eating less fat than usual - in past a large source of both fat and protein for me has been cooked eggs, lately I get more protein from dairy and shrimp since eggs are no longer very appetizing to me, which I suspect indicates slight sensitivity to allergens in the whites. Just took 2 raw egg yolks. Stomach slightly bothered for like 10 mins.
430 - went to park for sunny barefoot walk. On drive over, enjoyed aggressive music. I strongly favored aggressive music in my teen years but in last few years began favoring more chill, ambient, or instrumental music. When pulling into parking lot, spontaneous feeling of optimism and confidence surfaced in the form of a quick idle fantasy of actually becoming a fighter pilot.
During walk, feeling at peace and joyful.
Go to mall afterwards, extremely strange occurrence:
Apparently the mall was closed but the gate into the mall from the attached Target store wasn't shut so I wandered in. There were a couple like teens or young guys or something also around this entrance area and a mall cop corralling people out acting pretty exasperated about it. He's just saying "malls closed guys" And one of the "youths" says "shut your bitch ass up that's like the tenth time you've said it" and that got me angry, uncharacteristically so. So I turn around and because I'm heated I didn't think through what to say or enunciate well and what came out was "bro you're really gonna be a little faggot to the mall cop like that?" But I don't know who specifically said it to him because I was on my way out the door and the commotion was behind me. Anyway the the person closest to me when I said it was like a fat 13-15 year old and he thought I was talking to him directly and I don't even know if I was because I don't know who said it, but he looked scared and confused, and now looking back logically it was probably the older lankier dudes further behind us. I felt very bad and guilty about essentially calling a probably innocent kid a faggot. This whole episode was kind of rattling to me after I left because I am habitually a very chill personable guy. Since everyone was gone before I processed what I said or would be able to apologize I donated 20 bucks to the local homeless shelter as kind of a sacrifice as I do believe roughly in some kind of accountability to the Gods for justice and virtue.
I believe this is something I would not have done if I was not taking DHT and it's very interesting to observe how hormones change things about our behavior that we habitually attribute to an abstract and fairly immutable personality. I also think I wouldn't have felt as guilty if the person who caught my remark was older and I was more certain of their guilt and I feel I might have even escalated if they engaged. However even if the kid was the one who said that shit to the mall cop it would still be unbecoming and irresponsible for an adult to speak like that to a minor and it's concerning that my better judgment was suspended like that. Maybe that's just par for the course when you're trying to recreate the hormonal environment of youth or adolescence though.
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Interlude: my thoughts and evaluation after 1 week, plus considerations for continuing, changing, or suspending the experiment.
First, I will say the most potent and noticeable effects for me of the DHT are that it increases appetite and has a considerable slimming/de-fattening or at least de-bloating effect. I believe people on the old forum were referring to a dht dominant physique as being reminiscent of classical Greek depictions of the ideal male body.
The mental and emotional effects are very interesting and I can't really class them as solidly negative or positive. In isolation DHT seems to promote a kind of disembodied calmness and "rational preparation for violence." During one of my walks I found myself ruminating on how I could manage certain knife or gun defense scenarios which is out of the ordinary for me. I think I have to say subjectively I do not enjoy this state of mind as it feels blunted. However when paired with equal ratios of other hormones the emotional effect of DHT is quite different. Today was the first day I tried the combo of dht with progesterone and the mood boost was considerable and enjoyable. DHT and progest combo seems to promote optimism. For my future doses I will be trying progest again to see if that's a reliably reproducible effect of the combo.
Also regarding pairings, I find at least a 1:1 ratio of dht to pansterone (making it 1:1:1 dht:dhea:preg) gives significantly better energy and mood results than just dht. I may try ratios that significantly favor pansterone and evaluate how those feel.
Ultimately, so far my experience with DHT has been very interesting and enlightening and it has been surprising that the positive effects have not been any of the effects that I was expecting. I am not experiencing the sexual benefits I was hoping for and even though my "mental libido" has been high (ie high desire to look at women, think about women, etc) the physical libido does not match and erection frequency and quality actually seems to be a little lower than normal. I would prefer the situation reversed as I find "mental libido" distracting and fruitless. That being said, my girlfriend and I are long distance so I am not having any real sex. It could be interesting to see if/how the sexual effects of DHT would be different when she and I are together and consistently sexually active.
On the one hand, DHT is seeming quite pro metabolic because of the appetite boost, as well as making me feel quite warm and limber. However the way it seems to lower my physical libido and the way that upon application my breathing tends to become slightly more strained makes me suspicious of what might be going on. One possibility is that I have a sensitivity to DMSO which I have heard of a few people having or developing. Another possibility is that the powerful anti fat effect is releasing too many free fatty acids into my bloodstream and some of the slightly negative symptoms like slight lethargy on some days (but not others?) are downstream of that. Certainly DHT makes you burn through sugar and need more.
I may continue a low dose for a little while just since I have this big bottle, and if I do so I will be doing it in ratios that fairly strongly favor the more traditional peaty hormones. After dipping my toes in like this I am curious to try normal testosterone as well and see how it compares. I am also strongly curious to acquire some vitamin E and see how it interacts and if it potentiates these androgens alongside all it's other positive effects. I would actually really like to get some test and/or dht powder and dissolve it in some E myself as the premade dmso mix is pretty pricey and I would like to try alternate solvents in case the dmso is what's bothering me and causing some of the undesirable symptoms.
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@babou
Day 9 may 311140 am 1 drop tyromix 3 drops pansterone 2 drops preg. 1 drop DHT; experiment with tiny doses spread out instead of concentrated?
Poor sleep and not an easy wake up, slept in late because went to bed late. Congested and runny nose today, seasonal allergies likely.
4 pm, 3 drop pansterone, 2 preg, 2 prog, 1 mg dht.
Breathing reaction persists even at this tiny dose? Hard to tell.
9 pm 3 drops pan 2 drops preg 2 drops prog 1 drop tyromix 1 1/2-2 drops dht.
No noticeable changes until bed a few hours later
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Day 10 June 1
No dht during day today. 3-6 mg of pansterone spread over day, 2 or 3 drops tyromix spread. Mood, libido high, energy fairly high, erection quality still down compared to pre dht, body comp diminished from highs during supplementation.
Midnight before bed: 24 drops pansterone, 8 drops preg, 14 drops progest, 15-20 mg DHT. Trying to see if I can recreate effect from first night where I got a full restful night of sleep in only 6 hours. Smell of both hormone and dmso carrier strong and less subjectively pleasant than previously.
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@babou Day 11 June 2
Did not at all result in shorter sleep: woke up at 1130 after solid 10 hours of dreamless sleep.
Ejaculated around 12. Partially retained. Sperm quality normal/high. Sensation of orgasm slightly lower than usual. No mood or energy crash afterwards.3 pm: energy steady but not high. Body comp improved compared to yesterday.
I believe I am going to suspend the experiment now and take a few days or possibly weeks off all hormones except thyroid and possibly some pregnenolone "to taste." I believe I have a decent idea now of what dht does and doesn't do for me. On the whole I'd say I'm not in love with it and the negatives slightly outweigh the positives. I'm curious to see if there will be lingering positive or negative effects after stopping and if those would be strong enough to change my opinion to sharply positive or negative, but I don't see much evidence currently why that would be the case. I also note that the positive effects felt at first diminished over the course of these 10 days while the negative effects remained about the same or became slightly worse. I suspect that this small cycle even if not enough to make the raw amount in circulation unphysiological was still enough to create an unphysiological ratio.
The return of dandruff is also a powerful negative sign to me and I do believe if dosage was higher and the cycle longer, I would start to shed hair
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@babou ive been having very similar effects as well after being on a 60% (so they claim) DHT topical oil, only been using it for a few days now but have experienced everything youve described. Increase in assertiveness/confidence especially when talking with people, increase in mental sex drive but decrease in penis sensitivity and balls feel more tight less hangy, i figured i mightve gotten a bunk product but reading your experience makes me think thats just how DHT works. Have been doing 4 drops per day seperated into two 2 drop doses.
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@milo7 So that would be about 24 mg a day for you? Do you plan to continue? If you keep going a while, you should update us as I'm curious how effects would look with long term dosage yet I'm not personally willing to try a long term cycle due to the reasons outlined in this thread.
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@babou said in Low dose DHT experiment log:
Mg conversion of 10% gel: 0.10 mL liquid = 100 mg liquid, 10% DHT = 1mg active dht per 0.01 mL (Abt 1 drop)
my understanding is that there are 20 drops in a mL. This means there are 5 mg of DHT per drop. Could be more depending on the viscosity of the gel
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@babou that dosage sounds about right, i like the sense of calm and clarity/reduced anxiety it seems to be giving me so yeah im going to keep using it till im all out (about 60ml) and ill post updates in this thread
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@babou said in Low dose DHT experiment log:
I acquired a solution of 10% DHT in DMSO, following many positive testimonies and favorable studies.
From where?
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No offence but there are so many things wrong with this thread...
First of all you dont really seem to understand what is the role of and what effects DHT should have.
The health goals you describe are too generic and can be achieved with an appropriate diet, lifestyle and substances much safer that DHT. They are not exclusive to DHT and some of them are not even part of its effects.Secondly noone and i repeat noone, should be taking DHEA in their 20s. Endogenous DHEA production peaks at this age and any exogenous administration will convert almost exclusively to estrogen. Which brings me to the next point: why are you taking DHEA while being 20-30% bodyfat? Adipose (fat) tissue already has increased aromatase expression so at this bodyfat there's no doubt the DHEA you're taking is converting to estrogen.
This is also confirmed by you jacking off so many times, since estrogen is excitatory, and causes insatiable, degenerate libido.Which brings me back to my first point. DHT is a potent anti-estrogen and such should powerfully decrease the estrogenic libido, to the point where you hardly get any urges to jack off. But you dont seem to neither understand that nor be able to distinguish this effect because of the DHEA.
The other substances you're taking are a lot safer but are still blurring the true effects of DHT. If you're taking NDT, progesterone, pregnenolone etc, it is not really a DHT log, is it?
I would only keep thyroid or pregnenolone from these.Furthermore 10mg transdermal DHT is very low, and despite being in DMSO you're absorbing at most 5-6mg depending on the area you apply. It's highly unlikely that this amount is going to have any significant effect in body composition, androgenic features and the such. Especially with that much body fat, 25-50mg/day is probably better. Do not worry about suppression, it happens at 200mg+ and at these lower doses it actually stimulates its own synthesis.
Finally as Ray has said it's important to have all the other things in place, like thyroid, calcium, magnesium, protein, vitamin D, vitamin E etc before messing with hormones. Like if it hasnt been at least 1.5 year since you ate oatmeal and pufa, you shouldnt take any hormones. "Master" the basics of peating first and then dabble in the bulgarian so to say stuff.
This is my 2c, again not trying to bring you down or insult you, these are just my thoughts as ive been in similar situation before. Good luck
