is thyroid supplementation essential?
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can a person get by without it?
How substantial are the differences with it?
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@wester130 bumping because im interested as well
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@wester130 If one can raise their body temperature to about 37 degrees Celcius just with smart nutritional and lifestyle changes they don't need thyroid supplementation.
If someone can't raise it naturally then careful/thoughtful consideration of thyroid supplementation is recommended...
Visual aid https://twitter.com/natelawrence_/status/1766186130985107582
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@Kvirion said in is thyroid supplementation essential?:
https://twitter.com/natelawrence_/status/1766186130985107582
How possible is it to actually achieve 37 degrees with ought it being due to adrenaline? IIRC Broda Barnes estimated over half of adults could be hypothyroid and this was back in the 1970s. Our environment has only become more toxic since.
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@Kvirion said in is thyroid supplementation essential?:
@wester130 If one can raise their body temperature to about 37 degrees Celcius just with smart nutritional and lifestyle changes they don't need thyroid supplementation.
If someone can't raise it naturally then careful/thoughtful consideration of thyroid supplementation is recommended...
Visual aid https://twitter.com/natelawrence_/status/1766186130985107582
My thoughts as well.
Clearly, using thyroid isn't always the answer as many have used thyroid to little effect in RPF as well as here, which means there is more to revving up metabolism than simply a lack of thyroid hormones.
But the path of least resistance is what we first resort to, and that is reasonable. But when thyroid supplementation, done the right way, fails to rev up metabolism significantly, much less to attain the body temperature of 37°C, there is something deeper and systemic at play.
But Peat often limits his answers to using thyroid supplementation, especially in interviews- as interviews cannot be more involved and complicated or he would lose the audience, as typified by the old lady who often calls in Ray Peat's interviews with the Herb Doctor.
This, however, builds the impression among many members that supplementation is the only way, and one could get stuck in continually using thyroid supplementation even if one is not getting any progress.
But this is where going more deeply into Peat's books and newsletters allows one to gain the appreciation that there are interrelationships in the body that impact the thyroid. It is not always explicitly stated, and one has to connect the dots.
And I for one am of the opinion that hormones and steroids as supplements should be seen as a therapeutic aid, if only to jumpstart the body out of a vicious cycle, and once out of that cycle, it transitions into a virtuous cycle where the body can go back to producing hormones and steroids such as thyroid.
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@PrinceTrebata said in is thyroid supplementation essential?:
How possible is it to actually achieve 37 degrees with ought it being due to adrenaline? IIRC Broda Barnes estimated over half of adults could be hypothyroid and this was back in the 1970s. Our environment has only become more toxic since.
Nobody promised that it would be easy... But the proper solution is systemic i.e. taking care of all health aspects, not just taking T4/T3 for example... Such [holistic] approach will take control of adrenaline too.
Just for a note: other substances that can help with better metabolism besides thyroid: Androgens/DHEA, progesterone, Aspirin, caffeine, niacinamide, collagen/gelatin, sodium, Ca, Mg, Zn, ADEK, carbohydrates, etc. Not to mention, sunlight/red light, walking/hiking, and rich social and creative life...
Update: and by avoiding PUFAs!
@yerrag Well said, can't agree more
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K Kvirion referenced this topic on
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BroJonas
But chicken neck, fish head, and liver are still high in thyroid. And you can't help but not avoid eating the thyroid fron small fish such as anchovies. But in a highly industrialized and regulated and streamlined economy as in the US, where regulations are pro-big business and anti-common good, regulations would favor making its people more sick and turned into cash cows for big business.
And so Ray Peat is right. But if you are knowledgeably placed and have your mind in the right place, you would not be a hapless victim and you can seek food with thyroid in them, and not simply accept the paucity of thyroid in the food supply.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag Great answer. However, is there any drawback to adding a little bit of cynoplus? There is no real drawback or health concerns if you don't use to much, and as soon as you stop the thyroid resumes function at a normal or sometimes slightly better rate. If you split it into 1/2 or 1/4 one $18 bottle would last anywhere from 50 to 200 days which is quite cheap as supplements go. This way your safe regardless of the regulations or anti-health laws passed down.
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Since I haven't used Cynoplus and haven't had to use thyroid supplementation except for a few temporary uses for Tyromax and Tyronene, I can only answer your question based on what I have read from Peat.
It's not that I have always been normothyroid. It's that when I was hypothyroid in my youth, I simply wasn't aware nor even heard of being hypothyroid. But I remember shaking hands then and felt warm hands, which in retrospect meant my hands were cold and I likely was hypothyroid.
It was only when I tested for mercury toxicity and removed the mercury toxicity that I realized a change in me. I felt better, and I could run a kilometer without feeling very sore and tired. Didn't know then that I was sore because of the lactic acid built up for just running a short distance, but that was before I removed the mercury toxicity. Also, post-mercury toxicity treatment, I would be told my hands are warm and a delight to shake.
Still, I was aware of thyroid then, but looking back, maybe then I had become normothyroid. All thanks to removing the mercury toxicity.
So fastforward 16 years and I got into the Ray Peat universe (8 years ago), and I tested myself to see what my thyroid status is, that I realized I was normothyroid. Sweet- as I didn't have to take thyroid to fix a hypothyroid condition. But bad, as if I were hypothyroid, I would go about doing the stuff you are doing now to fix my hypothyroid condition.
My limited experience wasn't all that bad though, as I realize not everything is about taking thyroid to fix hypothyroid. As I didn't take thyroid to fix hypothyroid, but did it with fixing my mercury toxicity. Which is why I said earlier that if thyroid supplementation isn't working, we have to look beyond thyroid supplementation to fix a poor thyroid condition.
But to answer your question- yes, it's okay to take Cynoplus the way you plan to do it. Just dose it right. Plenty of folks here know the dosing. Keep asking around, or go through some Peat writings such as rhe book Generative Energy.
You may not just need thyroid, but also pregnenolone and progesterone. That would help you jumpstart from a vicious cycle to a virtuous cycle where your body would begin to produce its own thyroid. And the key word is "help." As there are other factors also.
So you better line your ducks in a row, to make sure you're missing something that keeps your body from producing enough thyroid.
A list I wrote recently may be of help round up some pointers for you:
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag said in is thyroid supplementation essential?:
Thanks for your insight. It's interesting that you fixed your thyroid by fixing your mercury poisoning but it seems like there are so many things that can nuke your thyroid, it's so hard to make sure everything is on point. For you it was Mercury, others a food their allergic to, others were simply in a bad and stressful environment. I was thinking of taking a low dose to cover my bases, but am pondering if this is a fools errand and if it would be safer long term to simply find whats impeding thyroid. The Progesterone and Pregnenolone are good ideas but they're overall more expensive than thyroid. I'm wondering if Thyroid is more effective while also being cheaper, the only real drawback would be potential ill health effects which I am unaware of. You gave me much to think about and I appreciate your feedback!
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You're welcome. There was also something I forget to mention. Before I even heard of Ray Peat, I went cold turkey on PUFAs (from another talk by another doctor) and by the time I joined RPF, 4 or 5 years have passed. I realized then the time was ripe for me to test the effect of that long period of not taking PUFAs.
Not only did I cured my hypoglycemic condition, I tested negative on hypothyroid as well. So, it may be that going cold turkey on PUFAs for at least 4 years would be another way to improve one's thyroid.
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@yerrag how did you resolve your mercury toxicity?
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a dentist removed my mercury fillings (eleven in all) and I had a series if mercury chelation over IV with DMPS.
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@yerrag ok, thanks.
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I have reached the conclusion that a supplement of
zinc,
copper,
selenium,
iodine (not a megadose, normal dose,)is better for the thyroid than thyroid hormone
This supplement looks excellent
Taking thyroid hormone never addresses the problem, a chronic low intake of iodine and selenium
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@wester130 said in is thyroid supplementation essential?:
I have reached the conclusion that a supplement of
zinc,
copper,
selenium,
iodine (not a megadose, normal dose,)is better for the thyroid than thyroid hormone
This supplement looks excellent
Taking thyroid hormone never addresses the problem, a chronic low intake of iodine and selenium
I agree with you.
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My body temp is good but my thyroid does not work well. I understand that in my case this is probably due to high cortisol,
I have been strict with my diet for 6 months and am going to start a thyroid supplement soon. See what happens. -
@happyhanneke probably makes things worse
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Thyroid for me is essential but not the 1 pill to cure all my woes.
Without taking thyroid, my pulse dips to 36 bpm and in the 40s - 50s with office work. On thyroid, my daytime resting is around 70 bpm.
I take Cynoplus and Cynomel. I need less in the summer and more in the winter to reach a daytime temperature of 37 C or higher and a reasonable pulse.
I hope that one day I can become metabolically healthy enough to stop needing it, but until then, I still have to source it.
