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    Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard

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    • W
      wester130 @tubert
      last edited by wester130

      @tubert persoanlly i can leave it on overnight but Vitamin A and retinol products may be better to remove old collagen

      idealabs sell a Vitamin A product in alcohol so it's not as greasy

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      • T
        tubert @wester130
        last edited by

        @wester130 ok, thanks for the info! It may be that my scalp just needs to get used to the acid

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        • W
          wester130 @Mossy
          last edited by

          actually this has made me reconsider diclofenac

          https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/diclofenac-gel-oil-prepared-iontoforesis-photos.91503/

          in hindsight, When I used diclofenac I used a spray bottle with mint essence, maybe that's what I was reacting to

          I may try voltarol gel instead

          H MossyM 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • H
            Hearthfire @wester130
            last edited by

            @wester130

            That does make me reconsider trying it. Impressive.

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            • W
              wester130 @Hearthfire
              last edited by

              @Hearthfire

              what part of diclofenec causes the growth?

              is it the suppression of tgfb-1? just a guess

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              • H
                Hearthfire @wester130
                last edited by

                @wester130 Powerful anti-inflammatory action. Whatever is going on in the scalp that causes the inflammation, it reduces that inflammation effectively, and allows hair to grow again. Could be the lowering of pgd2.

                This post from a thread on hairlosstalk seems to hit the nail on the head

                If you look at the mechanism of action, it inhibits cox as most NSAIDs. Means it lowers also the beneficial pge1, pge2 and pgf2a. However bald scalp mostly expresses pgd2 and low pge2, makes sense that there is overall a beneficial effect. Story changes probably once you want actual regrowth, and are already taking finasteride/dutasteride/ru etc and also start more targeting of that pathway (crth2 inhibitors, pge2, pgf2a analogues...). I guess one could in fact try diclo plus topical pge analgues (you probably at least want pge2 analogue plus castor oil and in addition some potent pgf2a like chloprostenol) to avoid this issue and save some money on seti etc (and avoid the non-responder issue with crth2i therapy). I also would avoid diclo while woundling, as inflammation triggers the growthfactors which makes it even less practical as pgd2 and crth2 inhibit wound induced hf neogenesis.

                https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/diclofenac-now-available-over-the-counter.127444/post-1874753

                I bet pairing it with castor oil taken orally would be a powerful combination.

                The ricinoleic acid in castor oil is a potent pge2 agonist, it stimulates pge2, and potentially has an antagonizing effect with pgd2. Pge2 promotes relaxtion of tissues, pgd2 promotes constriction of tissues.
                Good video from More Plates More Dates on the subject:
                Youtube Video

                So you lower the high balding scalp levels of pgd2 with the Diclofenac gel, then take castor oil to promote pge2, and get even more pgd2 antagonist action.

                W MossyM 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • W
                  wester130 @Hearthfire
                  last edited by

                  @Hearthfire it still sounds a dangerous drug

                  I am consdiering NMN, nicotinamide mononucleotide, seems better than niacinamide

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                  • H
                    Hearthfire @wester130
                    last edited by Hearthfire

                    @wester130

                    I did a bit more reading on the side effects, the crazy stuff like heart attacks seems it's related to people taking it in tablet form in fairly high doses, and it's because it raises your blood pressure.

                    I don't think rubbing the gel on topically would cause an issue, not anymore than nizoral/minoxidil and some of the other things people use topically. Since you can now buy the gel on freakin' Amazon without a prescription, I imagine it's very safe to use topically.

                    People take NSAIDs all the time that increase the risk of heart attack. Doesn't mean it will. If you're not healthy, by all means avoid it.

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                    • MossyM
                      Mossy
                      last edited by

                      @Hearthfire @wester130
                      It will be good to hear how you guys do on it. Definitely interested to know if you get any sides, with heart and stomach. Too bad that Hairlosstalk forum poster never reported back.

                      "To desire action is to desire limitation" — G. K. Chesterton
                      "The true step of health and improvement is slow." — Novalis

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                      • MossyM
                        Mossy @wester130
                        last edited by

                        @wester130 said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:

                        I may try voltarol gel instead

                        Interesting. You're thinking the non-generic may be more pure, therefore less sides?

                        "To desire action is to desire limitation" — G. K. Chesterton
                        "The true step of health and improvement is slow." — Novalis

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                        • MossyM
                          Mossy @Hearthfire
                          last edited by

                          @Hearthfire said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:

                          I also would avoid diclo while woundling, as inflammation triggers the growthfactors which makes it even less practical as pgd2 and crth2 inhibit wound induced hf neogenesis.

                          If true, this is good information to have.

                          "To desire action is to desire limitation" — G. K. Chesterton
                          "The true step of health and improvement is slow." — Novalis

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                          • W
                            wester130 @Mossy
                            last edited by

                            @Mossy possibly less sides, also need to be aware of a strange dry cough it can cause

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                            • BearWithMeB
                              BearWithMe @Mossy
                              last edited by

                              @Mossy said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:

                              After some additional research, I'm going to have to count out taking Diclofenac gel for now, based on potential severe stomach issues, such as ulcers and deterioration of the lining.

                              If I understand these posts correctly, some users of Diclofenac take an additional supplement or drug to counter the lining deterioration, ulcer issue. That seems like a tightrope that would be hard to walk, getting the balance just right. At least for someone highly susceptible to side effects.

                              https://www.reddit.com/r/ChronicPain/comments/bn7a7z/comment/en3g3zc/

                              Please correct me if I'm worng. I think these side effects are somewhat common when oral Diclofenac is used, but super super rare when it is applied topically? European drug regulatory agencies doesn't seem to list any such effects, only local irritation / skin-related side effects, and possible allergic reactions (asthma, swelling, very rare, less than 1 report in 10 000), nothing else. Anecdotal evidence seems to support that.

                              But obviously, with drug / supplement sensitivity you described, one never knows

                              H MossyM 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • H
                                Hearthfire @BearWithMe
                                last edited by

                                @BearWithMe

                                Yeah, I did a little reading into it, it seems to be from oral pills at moderate to high doses.

                                Other NSAIDs people take have similar side effects, but millions of people take them every day without issue.

                                I think topical is probably safe.

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                                • W
                                  wester130 @Mossy
                                  last edited by

                                  @Mossy you should still take caution but this says topical is safer

                                  https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5721772/

                                  MossyM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • MossyM
                                    Mossy @BearWithMe
                                    last edited by

                                    @BearWithMe said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:

                                    @Mossy said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:

                                    After some additional research, I'm going to have to count out taking Diclofenac gel for now, based on potential severe stomach issues, such as ulcers and deterioration of the lining.

                                    If I understand these posts correctly, some users of Diclofenac take an additional supplement or drug to counter the lining deterioration, ulcer issue. That seems like a tightrope that would be hard to walk, getting the balance just right. At least for someone highly susceptible to side effects.

                                    https://www.reddit.com/r/ChronicPain/comments/bn7a7z/comment/en3g3zc/

                                    Please correct me if I'm worng. I think these side effects are somewhat common when oral Diclofenac is used, but super super rare when it is applied topically? European drug regulatory agencies doesn't seem to list any such effects, only local irritation / skin-related side effects, and possible allergic reactions (asthma, swelling, very rare, less than 1 report in 10 000), nothing else. Anecdotal evidence seems to support that.

                                    But obviously, with drug / supplement sensitivity you described, one never knows

                                    Thank you for pointing that out. I came back here to say something to that exact point, but you beat me to it. It does seem like those effects are from oral, not topical. But I can tell you that I'm about 95% sure I'll still get them from topical, albeit not as strong. I can't even use topical niacin or niacinamide without negative effects, e.g., allergic reactions: over all malaise, hypoxia-like breathing issues, . Even so, I do have some Diclofenac in my cart on Amazon! I am mulling over whether the name brand would offer a higher quality product, and therefore less sides, as @wester130 was considering.

                                    "To desire action is to desire limitation" — G. K. Chesterton
                                    "The true step of health and improvement is slow." — Novalis

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                                    • MossyM
                                      Mossy @wester130
                                      last edited by Mossy

                                      @wester130 said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:

                                      @Mossy you should still take caution but this says topical is safer

                                      https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5721772/

                                      Indeed. Thank you for bringing that up. I would start very slowly.

                                      "To desire action is to desire limitation" — G. K. Chesterton
                                      "The true step of health and improvement is slow." — Novalis

                                      BearWithMeB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • BearWithMeB
                                        BearWithMe @Mossy
                                        last edited by BearWithMe

                                        @Mossy Be careful not to cause the side effects just by expecting the side effects. Wish you the best of luck.

                                        It is very interesting that Diclofenac is apparently effective for both hair loss and beard loss. The pathology of the two seems to be very different, almost the opposite?

                                        MossyM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • MossyM
                                          Mossy @BearWithMe
                                          last edited by

                                          @BearWithMe said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:

                                          @Mossy Be careful not to cause the side effects just by expecting the side effects. Wish you the best of luck.

                                          It is very interesting that Diclofenac is apparently effective for both hair loss and beard loss. The pathology of the two seems to be very different, almost the opposite?

                                          I get that. A self-fulfilling prophecy. I am conscious of that. And thank you!

                                          I have read many stories of people successfully using minoxidil for beard growth. So, maybe not that different after all.

                                          "To desire action is to desire limitation" — G. K. Chesterton
                                          "The true step of health and improvement is slow." — Novalis

                                          onliestO 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • onliestO
                                            onliest @Mossy
                                            last edited by

                                            @Mossy what about GHK-cu dissolved in DMSO?

                                            W MossyM 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
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