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    Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?

    Literature Review
    holy basil tulsi testosterone thyroid
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    • MauritioM
      Mauritio @Ismail
      last edited by

      @Ismail hey mate, I'll try it for one day first and see if sleep is impacted in any way...

      Dare to think.

      My X:
      x.com/Metabolicmonstr

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • cs3000C
        cs3000 @Mauritio
        last edited by cs3000

        @Mauritio hmm some big results ty,
        its odd how variable they are though

        so that first study was very high dose as an extract, they showed testosterone crashed

        here in rats feeding an extract crashed testosterone too , with LH going up in response,
        again very high dose 500mg/kg of extract , 95% ethanol extract
        ursolic acid didnt play much of a role
        https://www.ijpsonline.com/articles/a-study-on-the-effect-of-ocimum-sanctum-linn-leaf-extract-and-ursolic-acid-on-spermatogenesis-in-male-rats.pdf
        fab994cf-6e7d-479c-87b5-032469ff8d88-image.png

        here using lower doses up to 300mg/kg in mice didnt impair fertility (restored it against cigarette smoke, test not mentioned)
        (is it the extract process, dose, or the location of the leaf creating the increase vs decrease?
        they said ethanol here, was it 100%?)
        http://repository.unusa.ac.id/9598/1/The Effectiveness of Extract Basil Leaves on Motility and Morphology of Spermatozoa Mice Exposed with Cigarette Smoke.pdf

        feeding just the leaves to rats caused infertility here too. because of high acidity, with decreased testes weight.
        but cant see the amount given
        https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Antifertility-effect-of-Ocimum-sanctum-L.-Kasinathan-Ramakrishnan/401cf7dfa99306f89296dcfb8fc2353f8d69d2ca

        2 weeks of stopping = reversal
        https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/REVERSIBLE-ANTI-FERTILITY-EFFECT-OF-BENZENE-EXTRACT-Ahmed-R.-Ahamed/7a7b9a2725a96c71028e519f924f79664a246714

        Great effect for the fresh leaves + rabbit studies though using 2g of leaves,
        high dose of an extract showed opposite effect for thyroid too

        • However, Panda et al have reported
          that OS leaf extract (0.5 g/ kg body weight)
          led to significant decrease in serum T3 and
          T4 levels which are in contrast to our study.
          [19]

        maybe best to use dried leaf powder instead of extract so get all compounds water & fat / ethanol soluble

        2g leaves
        2kg rabbits
        1g leaf / kg , human dose maybe ~20g - 30g leaf ( 2g - 3g leaf powder if wet weight 10:1 (?) )

        ~5g of fresh tulsi leaf paste showed good anti inflammatory effect https://www.researchgate.net/publication/289802769_Anti_inflammatory_activity_of_fresh_tulsi_leaves_Ocimum_Sanctum_in_albino_rats

        some of the compounds (water soluble part only) https://sci-hub.ru/https://doi.org/10.1111/and.14179
        aef64e26-5d30-42b9-a99d-da5fcc6f8e10-image.png

        But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
        https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was india

        300mg/kg dose of just the oil extract caused infertility and lowered testosterone , 100mg/kg didnt raise or lower testosterone https://dergipark.org.tr/en/pub/jabs/issue/34910/387191

        so its probably the water soluble compounds responsible , or leaves from certain locations

        dark green basil leaves have novel peptides https://bmccomplementmedtherapies.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12906-023-04098-2

        "world," as a source of new perceptions
        more https://substack.com/@cs3001

        "Self-organizing systems decay only if they have assimilated inertia and — with a little support of the right kind— the centers of degeneration can become centers of regeneration"

        MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • W
          wester130 @Mauritio
          last edited by

          @Mauritio

          would you eve take schisandra/reishi etc?

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • MauritioM
            Mauritio @cs3000
            last edited by Mauritio

            @cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

            here in rats feeding an extract crashed testosterone too , with LH going up in response,
            again very high dose 500mg/kg of extract , 95% ethanol extract
            ursolic acid didnt play much of a role

            Interesting because that was the same dose caused an increase in progesterone in female mice without altering other hormones

            @cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

            is it the extract process, dose, or the location of the leaf creating the increase vs decrease?
            they said ethanol here, was it 100%?)

            I read that even amongst plants harvested from the same field the chemical composition varies a lot. So the best thing is probably to try out different kinds and dosages . I happen to have found an extract that works . But i also like the idea of the dried leave powder. I ordered some of the droed leave powder for basil and holy basil. Since they're pretty cheap.

            @cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

            But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
            https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was india

            This study used basil not holy basil .
            basil (Ocimum basilicum) and holy basil (Ocimum tenuiflorum, also called Ocimum sanctum) are different in chemical composition . While basil (Ocimum basilicum) also seems to have a pro- Testo effect, we can't transfer the dosage 1:1 to holy basil.
            That was a mistake I made as well , study on Microdose-basil I posted actually uses basil not holy basil , so I don't know if I'd get the same effects from a microdose of holy basil. But since everything varies so much here anyway, it's best to just try it out.

            The odd thing is that both the Microdose 25mg of basil and the mega dose 20g (1.5g/kg) seems to have the same effect on testosterone (increase in about 80-100%) that's a 1000x the dosage. Lol something doesn't add up here or the therapeutic window of Basil (Ocimum Basilicum) is extremely large.

            The side effects only showed with Ocimum Sanctum not O. Basilicum, so maybe it is even a better alternative ?

            Dare to think.

            My X:
            x.com/Metabolicmonstr

            cs3000C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • MauritioM
              Mauritio
              last edited by

              Although in the basil microdose study they also state

              "Each rat used 3 gr of the powder
              daily for 45 days."

              Not sure why they're saying this as this wasn't they did.

              "One of the
              subgroups, as the diabetic control group,
              received normal saline and the other two
              subgroups, as the treatment groups,orally
              received 2 and 4 mg/kg of basil powder,..."
              https://www.mlj.goums.ac.ir/article-1-774-en.html

              Dare to think.

              My X:
              x.com/Metabolicmonstr

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • cs3000C
                cs3000 @Mauritio
                last edited by

                @Mauritio

                @cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

                But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
                https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was india

                This study used basil not holy basil .
                basil (Ocimum basilicum) and holy basil (Ocimum tenuiflorum, also called Ocimum sanctum) are different in chemical composition . While basil (Ocimum basilicum) also seems to have a pro- Testo effect, we can't transfer the dosage 1:1 to holy basil.
                That was a mistake I made as well , study on Microdose-basil I posted actually uses basil not holy basil , so I don't know if I'd get the same effects from a microdose of holy basil. But since everything varies so much here anyway, it's best to just try it out.

                The odd thing is that both the Microdose 25mg of basil and the mega dose 20g (1.5g/kg) seems to have the same effect on testosterone (increase in about 80-100%) that's a 1000x the dosage. Lol something doesn't add up here or the therapeutic window of Basil (Ocimum Basilicum) is extremely large.

                The side effects only showed with Ocimum Sanctum not O. Basilicum, so maybe it is even a better alternative ?

                yeah that is fucked lol ,
                sounds like its an ethanol extract so 2mg/kg of ethanol extract. and 4mg/kg didnt give any further effect than 2x testosterone. but yeah its very fucked how far apart they are

                👍 ok Ocimum basilicum sweet basil , so same one that showed test increase in sheep eating the whole plant

                "world," as a source of new perceptions
                more https://substack.com/@cs3001

                "Self-organizing systems decay only if they have assimilated inertia and — with a little support of the right kind— the centers of degeneration can become centers of regeneration"

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • MauritioM
                  Mauritio
                  last edited by Mauritio

                  Here's another cool study for basil (O. basilicium, NOT holy basil) on Testosterone.

                  If anyone is still following this thread at this point you might want to go for basil not holy basil. Or both. I just haven't seen a single negative study on basil in relation to testosterone and for holy basil there are a few.

                  In arsenic treated rats it was able to almost completely restore their testosterone values to normal . Unfortunately they didn't have a control+ basil group , but basil almost tripled the T value of the arsenic treated rats compared to only arsenic treated rats. It also restored sperm health and testes weight and increased antioxidant enzymes drastically .

                  All of this especially at the highest dose of 500mg/kg, HED= 6g of O. Basilicum 95% alcohol extract.

                  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356840663_Potential_ameliorative_effects_of_Ocimum_basilicum_extract_and_leaves_on_testicular_toxicity_induced_by_sodium_arsenite_in_male_rats

                  Dare to think.

                  My X:
                  x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • MauritioM
                    Mauritio
                    last edited by

                    There might be a few MAO-B inhibitors in basil.
                    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32883197/

                    Dare to think.

                    My X:
                    x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • cs3000C
                      cs3000
                      last edited by cs3000

                      O. basilicium water extract fully restored glucose & insulin measures in diabetes model
                      https://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=pjbs.2020.1010.1017
                      increases glucose uptake by cells
                      c89a6be9-7c4b-4678-a198-652feab2748f-image.png

                      & increased sleep duration on a sedative more than diazapam , decreased time taken to fall asleep a couple minutes by itself (through GABA) so maybe best timing is PM https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5020426/#sec162951
                      extract with both water & ethanol solubles had greatest effect (potential for gaba rebound though)

                      "world," as a source of new perceptions
                      more https://substack.com/@cs3001

                      "Self-organizing systems decay only if they have assimilated inertia and — with a little support of the right kind— the centers of degeneration can become centers of regeneration"

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • MauritioM
                        Mauritio
                        last edited by Mauritio

                        Another reason to favor O. Basilicum !
                        Yeah it does have a glucose lowering effect. There's a few studies on basil as a diabetes treatment . I notice the hypoglycemic effect.

                        Interesting in that dosage it actually caused sleep issues for me . Although that was O. Sanctum and not O. Basilicum as in this study.

                        In this study O .basilicum extract had sleep benefits in menopausal women. Dosage: 250mg extract.
                        https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36750371/

                        Although in this study it showed no effect on sleep.
                        https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11795059/

                        Dare to think.

                        My X:
                        x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                        cs3000C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • MauritioM
                          Mauritio
                          last edited by

                          "The biochemical parameters of hepatic function, renal function, glucose, triglyceride, and cholesterol level were significantly reduced in the treatment groups compared with the control group (p < 0.05)"

                          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39555564/#&gid=article-figures&pid=figure-1-uid-0

                          Dare to think.

                          My X:
                          x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • cs3000C
                            cs3000 @Mauritio
                            last edited by cs3000

                            @Mauritio
                            looks best trying close to sleep / or before last meal with carbs with the glucose effect, if theyre similar here maybe it wore off and caused lower gaba activity through the night? if dosed high the rebound could hit excessively looks potent

                            In this study O .basilicum extract had sleep benefits in menopausal women. Dosage: 250mg extract.
                            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36750371/
                            Although in this study it showed no effect on sleep.
                            https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11795059/

                            so shows 1g of dry plant powder is too low for effects. i have effective dose of dried leaves powder at 2.5g - 7.5g

                            "world," as a source of new perceptions
                            more https://substack.com/@cs3001

                            "Self-organizing systems decay only if they have assimilated inertia and — with a little support of the right kind— the centers of degeneration can become centers of regeneration"

                            MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • H
                              Hearthfire
                              last edited by

                              I've grown basil the last few years, it's amazing in stir fry. I got almost addicted to it, I wonder if my body was craving the effects it was having without me consciously noticing 🤔

                              I know what I'm definitely growing again this year 😁
                              I'll probably do italian basil and holy basil to test out both.

                              MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • MauritioM
                                Mauritio @cs3000
                                last edited by

                                @cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

                                @Mauritio
                                looks best trying close to sleep / or before last meal with carbs with the glucose effect, if theyre similar here maybe it wore off and caused lower gaba activity through the night? if dosed high the rebound could hit excessively looks potent

                                In this study O .basilicum extract had sleep benefits in menopausal women. Dosage: 250mg extract.
                                https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36750371/
                                Although in this study it showed no effect on sleep.
                                https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11795059/

                                so shows 1g of dry plant powder is too low for effects. i have effective dose of dried leaves powder at 2.5g - 7.5g

                                Even the microdose (30mg) caused waking up to early for me. It felt like hypoglycemia, woke up with a pounding heart.

                                But maybe you're onto something with the GABA theory. GABA rebound is real.

                                I obtained dried powder of both basils and will continue experimenting.

                                Dare to think.

                                My X:
                                x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • MauritioM
                                  Mauritio @Hearthfire
                                  last edited by

                                  @Hearthfire nice they used fresh basil in some studies so that's probably the best way to go!

                                  Dare to think.

                                  My X:
                                  x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                                  W 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • W
                                    wester130 @Mauritio
                                    last edited by

                                    could the alcohol tincture be used topically?

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • MauritioM
                                      Mauritio
                                      last edited by

                                      Yesterday I did 1g of basil (O. Basilicum)powder.

                                      I took it in the morning and it had a strong relaxing /anti cortisol effect on me.
                                      Muscles looked very full and less water retention as well.
                                      During the afternoon I became a bit irritable and serotonergic ,but not sure if related at all. Might be due to gut issues from the day before.
                                      I also felt quite confident and masculine. Totally recommend. Will try again .

                                      And the best part was it didn't mess with my sleep like in my previous experiments with holy basil.
                                      It was a bit harder to fall asleep but I didn't wake up early.
                                      Maybe that was because it was basil and not holy basil this time, but maybe it was me taking it so early that the GABA rebound was over when i went to sleep.
                                      I also took some limonene in the evening which increases GABA so maybe that flatened the GABA issues.

                                      Today I woke up weighing 500g less and muscles looking Big and full . I had no morning wood today which is unusual . But some androgenic substances do that to me.

                                      I still want to try 500mg and 25mg to see how that feels in comparison.

                                      Dare to think.

                                      My X:
                                      x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                                      H 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • H
                                        Hearthfire @Mauritio
                                        last edited by

                                        @Mauritio Interesting. Keep us posted.

                                        I gotta order a bunch of seeds soon. I'm gonna grow a ton of it to experiment with and put in stir fry.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • L
                                          lobotomize-me
                                          last edited by

                                          Just bought 4 basil plants and whenever i eat couple g of basil my voice drops extremely low, never seen such crazy effects in my life.

                                          MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • MauritioM
                                            Mauritio @lobotomize-me
                                            last edited by

                                            @lobotomize-me nice any other androgenic effects?

                                            Dare to think.

                                            My X:
                                            x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                                            L 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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