Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?

Mauritio

@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

here in rats feeding an extract crashed testosterone too , with LH going up in response,
again very high dose 500mg/kg of extract , 95% ethanol extract
ursolic acid didnt play much of a role

Interesting because that was the same dose caused an increase in progesterone in female mice without altering other hormones

@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

is it the extract process, dose, or the location of the leaf creating the increase vs decrease?
they said ethanol here, was it 100%?)

I read that even amongst plants harvested from the same field the chemical composition varies a lot. So the best thing is probably to try out different kinds and dosages . I happen to have found an extract that works . But i also like the idea of the dried leave powder. I ordered some of the droed leave powder for basil and holy basil. Since they're pretty cheap.

@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was india

This study used basil not holy basil .
basil (Ocimum basilicum) and holy basil (Ocimum tenuiflorum, also called Ocimum sanctum) are different in chemical composition . While basil (Ocimum basilicum) also seems to have a pro- Testo effect, we can't transfer the dosage 1:1 to holy basil.
That was a mistake I made as well , study on Microdose-basil I posted actually uses basil not holy basil , so I don't know if I'd get the same effects from a microdose of holy basil. But since everything varies so much here anyway, it's best to just try it out.

The odd thing is that both the Microdose 25mg of basil and the mega dose 20g (1.5g/kg) seems to have the same effect on testosterone (increase in about 80-100%) that's a 1000x the dosage. Lol something doesn't add up here or the therapeutic window of Basil (Ocimum Basilicum) is extremely large.

The side effects only showed with Ocimum Sanctum not O. Basilicum, so maybe it is even a better alternative ?

Mauritio

Although in the basil microdose study they also state

"Each rat used 3 gr of the powder
daily for 45 days."

Not sure why they're saying this as this wasn't they did.

"One of the
subgroups, as the diabetic control group,
received normal saline and the other two
subgroups, as the treatment groups,orally
received 2 and 4 mg/kg of basil powder,..."
https://www.mlj.goums.ac.ir/article-1-774-en.html

cs3000

@Mauritio

@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was india

This study used basil not holy basil .
basil (Ocimum basilicum) and holy basil (Ocimum tenuiflorum, also called Ocimum sanctum) are different in chemical composition . While basil (Ocimum basilicum) also seems to have a pro- Testo effect, we can't transfer the dosage 1:1 to holy basil.
That was a mistake I made as well , study on Microdose-basil I posted actually uses basil not holy basil , so I don't know if I'd get the same effects from a microdose of holy basil. But since everything varies so much here anyway, it's best to just try it out.

The odd thing is that both the Microdose 25mg of basil and the mega dose 20g (1.5g/kg) seems to have the same effect on testosterone (increase in about 80-100%) that's a 1000x the dosage. Lol something doesn't add up here or the therapeutic window of Basil (Ocimum Basilicum) is extremely large.

The side effects only showed with Ocimum Sanctum not O. Basilicum, so maybe it is even a better alternative ?

yeah that is fucked lol ,
sounds like its an ethanol extract so 2mg/kg of ethanol extract. and 4mg/kg didnt give any further effect than 2x testosterone. but yeah its very fucked how far apart they are

ok Ocimum basilicum sweet basil , so same one that showed test increase in sheep eating the whole plant

Mauritio

Here's another cool study for basil (O. basilicium, NOT holy basil) on Testosterone.

If anyone is still following this thread at this point you might want to go for basil not holy basil. Or both. I just haven't seen a single negative study on basil in relation to testosterone and for holy basil there are a few.

In arsenic treated rats it was able to almost completely restore their testosterone values to normal . Unfortunately they didn't have a control+ basil group , but basil almost tripled the T value of the arsenic treated rats compared to only arsenic treated rats. It also restored sperm health and testes weight and increased antioxidant enzymes drastically .

All of this especially at the highest dose of 500mg/kg, HED= 6g of O. Basilicum 95% alcohol extract.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356840663_Potential_ameliorative_effects_of_Ocimum_basilicum_extract_and_leaves_on_testicular_toxicity_induced_by_sodium_arsenite_in_male_rats

Mauritio

There might be a few MAO-B inhibitors in basil.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32883197/

cs3000

O. basilicium water extract fully restored glucose & insulin measures in diabetes model
https://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=pjbs.2020.1010.1017
increases glucose uptake by cells

& increased sleep duration on a sedative more than diazapam , decreased time taken to fall asleep a couple minutes by itself (through GABA) so maybe best timing is PM https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5020426/#sec162951
extract with both water & ethanol solubles had greatest effect (potential for gaba rebound though)

Mauritio

Another reason to favor O. Basilicum !
Yeah it does have a glucose lowering effect. There's a few studies on basil as a diabetes treatment . I notice the hypoglycemic effect.

Interesting in that dosage it actually caused sleep issues for me . Although that was O. Sanctum and not O. Basilicum as in this study.

In this study O .basilicum extract had sleep benefits in menopausal women. Dosage: 250mg extract.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36750371/

Although in this study it showed no effect on sleep.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11795059/

Mauritio

"The biochemical parameters of hepatic function, renal function, glucose, triglyceride, and cholesterol level were significantly reduced in the treatment groups compared with the control group (p < 0.05)"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39555564/#&gid=article-figures&pid=figure-1-uid-0

cs3000

@Mauritio
looks best trying close to sleep / or before last meal with carbs with the glucose effect, if theyre similar here maybe it wore off and caused lower gaba activity through the night? if dosed high the rebound could hit excessively looks potent

In this study O .basilicum extract had sleep benefits in menopausal women. Dosage: 250mg extract.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36750371/
Although in this study it showed no effect on sleep.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11795059/

so shows 1g of dry plant powder is too low for effects. i have effective dose of dried leaves powder at 2.5g - 7.5g

Hearthfire

I've grown basil the last few years, it's amazing in stir fry. I got almost addicted to it, I wonder if my body was craving the effects it was having without me consciously noticing

I know what I'm definitely growing again this year
I'll probably do italian basil and holy basil to test out both.

Mauritio

@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

@Mauritio
looks best trying close to sleep / or before last meal with carbs with the glucose effect, if theyre similar here maybe it wore off and caused lower gaba activity through the night? if dosed high the rebound could hit excessively looks potent

In this study O .basilicum extract had sleep benefits in menopausal women. Dosage: 250mg extract.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36750371/
Although in this study it showed no effect on sleep.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11795059/

so shows 1g of dry plant powder is too low for effects. i have effective dose of dried leaves powder at 2.5g - 7.5g

Even the microdose (30mg) caused waking up to early for me. It felt like hypoglycemia, woke up with a pounding heart.

But maybe you're onto something with the GABA theory. GABA rebound is real.

I obtained dried powder of both basils and will continue experimenting.

Mauritio

@Hearthfire nice they used fresh basil in some studies so that's probably the best way to go!

wester130

could the alcohol tincture be used topically?

Mauritio

Yesterday I did 1g of basil (O. Basilicum)powder.

I took it in the morning and it had a strong relaxing /anti cortisol effect on me.
Muscles looked very full and less water retention as well.
During the afternoon I became a bit irritable and serotonergic ,but not sure if related at all. Might be due to gut issues from the day before.
I also felt quite confident and masculine. Totally recommend. Will try again .

And the best part was it didn't mess with my sleep like in my previous experiments with holy basil.
It was a bit harder to fall asleep but I didn't wake up early.
Maybe that was because it was basil and not holy basil this time, but maybe it was me taking it so early that the GABA rebound was over when i went to sleep.
I also took some limonene in the evening which increases GABA so maybe that flatened the GABA issues.

Today I woke up weighing 500g less and muscles looking Big and full . I had no morning wood today which is unusual . But some androgenic substances do that to me.

I still want to try 500mg and 25mg to see how that feels in comparison.

Hearthfire

@Mauritio Interesting. Keep us posted.

I gotta order a bunch of seeds soon. I'm gonna grow a ton of it to experiment with and put in stir fry.

lobotomize-me

Just bought 4 basil plants and whenever i eat couple g of basil my voice drops extremely low, never seen such crazy effects in my life.

Mauritio

@lobotomize-me nice any other androgenic effects?

lobotomize-me

@Mauritio I had a game on the first day I took basil. You can read more about my experience in my other post. Although the game started off badly, on the way there I was super confident, joking with friends, feeling what i can describe as a extremly dht dominant state, and I truly felt like a "ruler" instead of a sheep.

The confidence seemed to fade during warm up, I wasn't unconfident, just silent and passive mentally. Even if I made a mistake, I didn't care too much what i felt could be described as a seratonin dominant state , putting my head down (I'm still trying to understand why this happens). When the game began, I fell into an extremely seratongenic state where everything just happened around me. I lost the ball multiple times and performed poorly(with hindsight i can remember me thinking as if i am in a cage trying to survive), so I asked my coach to substitute me off.

I talked with him and requested to be put back in after a few minutes he complied. Seeing my team struggle on the field made me angry and motivated. I told my coach I was ready, he put me back in, and then I dominated the other team.

At that moment, I genuinely felt like a ruler I can't fully describe it, but it felt incredible. I played amazingly, felt highly confident, had a high drive, commanded my team with helpful feedback, and overcame mistakes quickly. I'm not sure if basil had anything to do with this, but this was my full experience after taking sweet basil(High confidence/DHT dominance, although when faced with physical and mental pressure, suffered from a serotonergic state).

(Hope you can also help me figure out how to replicate the experience I had the second time I was substituted in and help me avoid entering the sheepish state of mind)

Mauritio

@lobotomize-me Interesting. Hard to say.
I wouldnt take it right before a game tbh. Its too anti-cortisol. The serotonergic state you describe could simply be that : no energy due to lack of cortisol. That can make you pretty fatigued when T3 isnt there to pick you up.

Maybe try the night before the game.

Luke

After reading the reports in this thread I bought a box with some dried basil powder, the one you can find in every grocery store among the spices. I'm not sure if it's as potent as fresh basil or concentrated powder, but I notice that I'm more relaxed and less stressed afterwards. I just take about a teaspoon and chew on it for two or three minutes before I swallow it (I find the taste quite pleasant and could imagine that the ingredients are good for the teeth, although that's speculation). Basil definitely peaked my interest.

I also bought the tulsi extract from Sunday Naturals that @Mauritio mentioned in this thread. The results are more mixed. The first day I took an entire capsule around noon and didn't notice much. Felt stressed beforehand and felt stressed afterwards. With smaller doses it gives me a relaxing effect. I wonder why the tea gives me better results. Maybe it's just the dose and the dose of a full capsule is just too high. Last Sunday I made a camomile tea and poured the content of a tulsi capsule into the cup as well. I slept pretty well that night (by my standards). There seems to be something about tea that agrees more with me than a concentrated powder. Maybe I was an Englishman in a former life.