Studies showing cancer reversal / shrinking
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Natural compound Physachenolide C (but not commercially available yet) gave complete remission in melanoma. in 1/3 of the mice it stayed regressed. (in the other 2/3, maybe doxycycline could have brought back the effect)
its a highly potent BET inhibitorhttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8571524/#sec0011
enhanced immunotherapy for regression (enhance with b-glucan?)
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8802328/#S19 -
interesting find - if u target a main 2% subset of melanoma cells the tumor goes in most cases without destroying the other part. if some are left theres potential for the regression to return
(does doxycyline help these ones get destroyed when combined with inhibitors?)https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1009069108
we revealed that established tumor lesions can be efficiently eradicated by targeted elimination of the less than 2% subset of melanoma cells with the CD20+ high molecular weight melanoma-associated antigen (HMW-MAA)+ phenotype without targeting the tumor cell mass, whereas targeted elimination of any minor subset is less effective.
These data provide a strategy for improving the biological therapy of melanomas and, moreover, for redesigning current drug development paradigms used in the treatment of cancer.HMW-MAA+ cells gave rise to melanomas upon transplantation, whereas sorted HMW-MAA− cells from the same melanoma did not.
indicating that these cells exhibit melanoma-initiating capacities.
T cells with redirected specificity for CD20 eradicated established melanoma lesions in four out of five melanoma biopsies, although the targeted cells represented less than 2% of melanoma cells.
It is noteworthy that transplanted tumors of patient 5, in which no CD20+ melanoma cells were detected, could not be eradicated by a CD20-redirected T-cell attack.Where tumors were eradicated, no tumor relapse occurred during the observation period of >36 wk.
Because no tumor relapse was observed in any case during the >36 wk observation period, such melanoma eradication is obviously long lasting
We conclude that CD20 is not functionally crucial but marks a specific cell population. The unexpected observation, however, is that targeting the minor CD20+ melanoma cell population is as effective as targeting the majority of tumor cells. A caveat for a broad therapeutic application is that obviously some melanomas, in our cohort one out of five patients, do not harbor CD20+ melanoma cellsThe observation that the specific elimination of a minor subset of tumor cells results in eradication of established melanoma lesions is crucial for the understanding of the biology of melanoma. Continuous melanoma growth obviously requires the presence of a minor population of cells, which displays the CD20+ HMW-MAA+ phenotype;Elimination of these cells is obviously required to eradicate the melanoma irrespective of the bulk of tumor cells
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@cs3000 WIlliam Koch the chemistry of natural immunity, cases at the bottom pages showing amazing recoveries
@cs3000 said in Studies showing cancer reversal / shrinking:
Human trial with methylglyoxal {aka pyruvaldehyde} (william Koch compound)
https://web.archive.org/web/20161017113947/http://www.cancer-therapy.org/CT/v4/B/HTML/17. Talukdar et al, 205-222.htmlLong term in a variety of cancers, ~80% of the people had remission or stability
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@cs3000 Nice, was that just methylglyoxal. Or also 6 months of vegan , low protein diet ?
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio all of it combined probably with methylgloxal being the main effect, maybe the low protein helps improve response rate,
In the modern trial ~40% of the people got complete remission of their tumors taken orally daily, without dietary changes mentioned just added vitamin C. Koch injected it just 1 time into muscle, then waited a couple weeks and repeated that twice more if needed
they tested some other stuff with efficacy on animals (human study mentioned low toxicity for the methylgloxal tho when done in vivo and as just methylglyoxal form)
other ones , they're "unsaturated diketones" or things that form them as "peroxides of substances that liberate free carboyl groups to form the unsatured diketone"
"Unsaturated diketones are organic compounds containing two ketone (carbonyl, C=O) functional groups and one or more double or triple bonds within their molecular structure. These unsaturated bonds make the molecule chemically reactive and allow for unique properties."
Something interesting, some of those substances create carbon dioxide when they degrade. or relates in some way
Quinones are unsaturated diketones
part of curcumin molecule is an unsaturated β-diketone https://casereports.bmj.com/content/2017/bcr-2016-218148 but generally they havent shown remission like the methylgloxal
some ketones like acetylacetone -
@cs3000 said in Studies showing cancer reversal / shrinking:
In the modern trial ~40% of the people got complete remission of their tumors taken orally daily, without dietary changes mentioned just added vitamin C. Koch injected it just 1 time into muscle, then waited a couple weeks and repeated that twice more if needed
Nice can you link this trial ?
Is the vitamin C there to help it cycle between reduced and oxidized ?Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@cs3000 - Interesting thread. Most of it is above my understanding.
Manuka honey has a high level of Methylglyoxa. Up to 100 higher than regular honey. Great for skin cancers but diabetics might need to understand the possible risk.
Methylglyoxal—A Potential Risk Factor of Manuka Honey in Healing of Diabetic Ulcers (2010)
Methylglyoxal levels also appear to be higher in Alzheimer patients.
Methylglyoxal, Glyoxal, and Their Detoxification in Alzheimer's Disease (2006)
I am wondering if the oral use of Methylglyoxal for cancer could cause other issues in the patient. Sort of a Whack-A-Mole of diseases.
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Just noticed these replies @DavidPS @Mauritio William koch only used it for 1 or a few injections mostly (combined with protein aka methionine restriction while its doing its thing to boost response further) . So orally is extending things for lower potency over a longer time. doesnt sound like something beneficial to use generally at these amounts, but specific for outweighing effect on tumors (& other dysfunctions by the book) that looks profound. thanks something to weigh with diabetes, if the need to deal with tumors outweighs or if it can be offset at wounds locally e.g using co2 baths potentially. (radiation / chemo is probably not good for diabetic wounds either)
in the animal study below showing 80% complete remission (amazing result u dont see elsewhere, or without extreme toxicity) they tested high doses for 1 month on various animals. no significant detriment in behaviours, or toxicity to reproductive system, had healthy offspring, organs tested were fine
when they injected it they had initial pain, and eventually some swelling until 10 days after treatment ended (possibly repeat injections?).
So on the macro level at least looks safe enough in general condition considering results for 1 month, but with some proinflammatory effect. But this one, weirdly using much lower dose, but for longer at 6 weeks, showed impaired wound healing and some detrimental measures doi.org/10.1042/CS20050026 and over months showed kidney changes https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9740317/
whether creatine can protect from these changes too outside of the heart e.g in kidneys, not suremy take on that is the large doses arent showing much toxicity so seems its based on duration, seems to me its the proinflammatory effect building up creating damage over time
- Btw with right approach it might not need to be used for over a month. Not sure but it showed effect at 10 days in the animal study but that was before it was established. The human study didnt use creatine to boost the effect further. and theres curcumin which might make it more effective too. thats if using orally
@Mauritio 80% complete remission in animal study when vitamin C + creatine was added too
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16112157/the creatine is there for extra safety for the heart and for some reason boosts the effect further
However, in all the normal types of cells tested, methylglyoxal was found to inhibit mitochondrial respiration in only cardiac cells. Creatine, which is abundantly present in these cells, could completely protect against the inhibitory effect of methylglyoxal
& dehydyroascorbic acid form of Vit C is another thing with 2+ carbonyl groups so there to boost effect at decent doses like 500mg+, im guessing it will go up with the ascorbic intake. like taking ubiquinol raises ubiquinone (actually raises ubiquinone more than taking ubiquinone)
both methylglyoxal and methylglyoxal plus ascorbic acid treatment had significant inhibitory effect on cell proliferation. Moreover, treatment of methylglyoxal plus ascorbic acid plus creatine not only completely inhibited the cell proliferation but also made the peritoneal cavity completely dry.
human trial is here https://bioenergetic.forum/post/34639
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@cs3000 Nice ! You might want to send this to Georgi , maybe he'll do a small study on it.
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@cs3000 dehydroascorbic acid can be made by taking vit c with methylene blue . the anti cancer effect is pro ROS because cells take up dhaa and in converting it back to vit c it creates ROS which healthy cells have capacity to deal with while deranged cells generally dont so they get killed by autoschizcis mechanism (a specific type of cell death)
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@cs3000 said in Studies showing cancer reversal / shrinking:
William koch only used it for 1 or a few injections mostly (combined with protein aka methionine restriction while its doing its thing to boost response further) .
At what does did Koch use it for injection?
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@Mauritio good idea i sent an email to idelabs
@eduardo-crispino thanks. they used 500mg normal vit c
curcumin inhibits glyoxalase 1 so should boost the effectiveness further (curcumin + vit c + creatine) but also might make normal cells more vulnerable, tho has some anti inflammatory effect too.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18946510/
good writeup
https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/methilglyoxal/@alfredoolivas his book on archive.org the chemistry of natural immunity has more details
