low Fiber diet - Ulcers / constipation (0.3% insoluble fiber in diet = no ulcers from NSAIDS) (ileum ileal jejenum crohns colitis)

cs3000

https://sci-hub.ru/10.2174/138161210790945922
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27779477/

NSAID ulcer incidence in humans varies widely from 10% - 70%,
when feeding 0.3% -> 3% dietary insoluble fiber it escalates the amount of lesions NSAIDs create
replacing the fiber with only pectin fiber instead (forms a gel kind of), they basically dont cause lesions at least lower down

0.3% fiber vs 3% ^
C & A refer to gastric, D duodenum, the numbers progressively through small intestine distance
(~3g vs ~30g fiber probably.
1% might still develop)

10% pectin instead, no lesions
(replacing with pectin or guar gum is important instead of just removing, for bowel movements, and so it can be processed by bacteria to keep SCFA production up instead of eating the mucosa which gets degraded if u just go low fiber otherwise)

for reoccurrence, >10g apple pectin a day made it worse in the duodenum https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3278367/ and the earlier image showed it worse in the duodenum for some reason

takeaway:
if want to heal chronic ulcers in small intestine & probably early part of the large intestine / colon until the insoluble fiber gets broken down by bacteria, its optimal to have max 3g insoluble fiber over a day, and the rest replaced with pectin to keep bowel movements.
{its interesting fruit has pectin basically matching the insoluble fiber content}

& alternatively
can match the insoluble fiber intake with grams of pectin (bumping up a little extra) or guar gum simultaneously at meals , can be enough to protect. (but pectin might especially bind minerals when taking high amounts simultaneously with food and wouldnt give the same effect separated from insoluble fiber intake)

https://sci-hub.ru/10.1007/s10620-009-0893-2

cs3000

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/

No fiber (or in reality very low fiber probably a few grams as they were instructed to replace wholegrain with white, and white rice which still have a little) = restored intestinal health
(trying it rn, adjusting lower with ~2g pectin mixed into remaining fiber at a time instead & bowel movements have basically stopped again, maybe more needed at once, next going to practically zero fiber.
allows healing to take place, and shows minimal fiber is needed for bowel movements when things are functional again)

*At 6 mo follow-up, the interval between bowel movements decreased with the reduction in fiber intake (P < 0.001).
Forty one patients who completely stopped fiber intake had their bowel frequency increased from one motion in 3.75 d (± 1.59 d) to one motion in 1.0 d (± 0.00 d) (P < 0.001).
Symptoms of abdominal pain only improved in patients who stopped fiber completely while those who continued on a high fiber diet or reduced fiber diet did not show any improvement

cs3000

@cs3000 said in 0g Fiber diet - Ulcers / constipation:
Pectin is a good add as recommendation for constipation, found its very effective if you have enough 1st thing empty stomach (maybe synergistic with 50mg bromelain after)

Update i tested 1g fiber diet a day, 3 weeks
trying to repair chronic ulceration & swelling in small intestine near naval

Bowel movements shut down completely again from this
Ulceration / burning / swelling didnt improve

i replaced carb sources with pineapple juice + glucose powder + 25g sugar a time
& adding 0.8g - 1g sodium bicarbonate in the cup of pineapple juice to lower its high acidity. some acid is apparently good for repairs but a lot makes the burning worse. this balances it and gives some sodium to balance the fluid too. diluted so its tolerated.
I put some boiled water in it so body doesnt have to release adrenaline every time drinking it cold
Some of the glucose powder turns into solids in the fluid from remaining starch so i just eat that from the bottom
and added a low dose vitamin + mineral supplement to make up for some of whats missing

from this I noticed i can tolerate meat better without having fiber food with it causing more swelling & burning, so now eating 2x meat meals a day

Seems if the damage is healed by low fiber alone then constipation improves over time e.g in the prev study.
but I must still have lack of repairs & / or ongoing autoimmune damage from the high neutrophils regardless of lowering the extra damage from fiber

I replaced apple pectin with pectin (probably citrus, not modified type) and tried 1x 7g empty stomach 1st thing in morning. breaking it down into smaller bits with a spoon first. (also 50mg bromelain about an hour later)
when i was mixing lower amounts of apple pectin in with food it didnt have an effect

2-3 hours later bowel movement returned. effect hit taking 5g next morning too.

enough pectin at once increases wet weight of stool. low methoxyl pectin speeds up transit time too where high methoxyl slows it down. but both types increase wet weight of stool.

next i'm sticking to 3g max solid fiber a day to keep ongoing damage low
adding 1x 5g morning pectin on empty stomach , and 50mg bromelain an hour later (ive tried high doses before with varied effectiveness, but might be some synergy here idk)
and I added standardized gotu kola
found some good effects on chronic wounds. testing ~~100mg~~ 50mg of 1 of the active compounds asiaticoside *2 a day

happyhanneke

Some of this goes over my head but I had terrible ulcerative colitis for 25+ years and I am completely free of it now. I noticed this issue with fiber myself if I had a juice day or 2 that my inflammation got better. I felt really good after a colonoscopy when my intestines were clean and that lasted for days or sometimes weeks.
I ate a mostly fiber free diet and implemented other things. This was just a live and learn thing but now I can even eat some fiber and not get a flare up. Although I am always afraid I will get it back.
I don't eat raw veggies. I do eat raw fruit and that seems fine. Cooked veggies are ok. Potatoes are ok but that's just me.
Eating carnivore for a while also helped but I couldn't do it. I don't like meat too much and I felt sluggish. I didn't do my thyroid a favor with that so that's what I am working on now. It's better but I'm 2 years in.
Not all on topic but that's my experience.

cs3000

damn & congrats. what other things did you add or stop to get to remission? mainly diet / lifestyle based or you found some medications/supps worked too?

herenow

@cs3000 said in 0g Fiber diet - Ulcers / constipation (0% insoluble fiber in diet = no ulcers from NSAIDS) (ileum ileal jejenum crohns colitis):

No fiber (or in reality very low fiber probably a few grams as they were instructed to replace wholegrain with white, and white rice which still have a little)

This is an unbelievable CATCH. I have heard this mischaracterized for years by dozens of people all over the internet promoting carnivore etc.

The best digestion came from a low fiber diet but nearly zero. All the bean and grain products will have some fiber and resistant starch which functions as fiber.

Total fraud to say best digestion was on a no fiber diet. I am seriously upset with how this study has been propagandized.

VEGANS you seeing this?

eduardo-crispino

it's funny because im pretty sure ive seen that guar gum can cause issues by itself

gg12

@eduardo-crispino Yea I thought so too and pectin too? r not pectin its in this jam I eat sometimes

gg12

@herenow so fiber is needed then?
What do u think is ideal if you dont have gut issues I dont want to hear it
The truth method of knowledge is experiment.
I am curious to try low fiber but I feel I dont eat much already I have bad high serotonin symptoms.
I find white rice has startch in it and that can be irritating

cs3000

@herenow yeah & mainly insoluble in those i think a slice of white bread or 100g white rice has ~ 0.5g insoluble

maybe they had 4 grams spaced apart over the day. which is near the first study with 0.3%

random

@cs3000 hi, can you check PM?

happyhanneke

@cs3000
Yes diet and lifestyle. Really paying attention of what I eat and what the reaction to it is.
One other thing that is important is that I went through menopause and so my hormones obviously completely changed. I noticed that this has made a big difference too.

I used to have it so bad that I could not go to work. Doctors have made it worse in the beginning too. They all have different opinions and it confused me.
For medication I used to take mesalamine suppositories (1000mg). They come in all kinds of brands. (asacol, canasa). It was the only thing that worked for me. I had a GI doc try to change me to prednisone but that did nothing for me and I felt terrible.
I still have these suppositories on hand since I am always afraid that I will get it back. If I catch it quick enough it won't go in a full blown flare up.

But as of now I have been symptom free for about 4 years and my colonoscopy is also clear.

herenow

@gg12 said in low Fiber diet - Ulcers / constipation (0.3% insoluble fiber in diet = no ulcers from NSAIDS) (ileum ileal jejenum crohns colitis):

The truth method of knowledge is experiment.

Exactly true. Too many variables. You just have to try different things. It's very common for people to eat more fiber than they can tolerate in order to eat "healthy."

@cs3000 said in low Fiber diet - Ulcers / constipation (0.3% insoluble fiber in diet = no ulcers from NSAIDS) (ileum ileal jejenum crohns colitis):

@herenow yeah & mainly insoluble in those i think a slice of white bread or 100g white rice has ~ 0.5g insoluble

maybe they had 4 grams spaced apart over the day. which is near the first study with 0.3%

I wish they had more details but these studies are never controlled perfectly anyway. Too difficult and expensive when using humans

herenow

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herenow

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cs3000

@cs3000 Tried the morning pectin consecutively but its been causing extra pain. too viscous to be having a lot at once for an existing wound i think. The stimulation also didnt hit again after the first 2 days (with or without the bromelain). The only difference is the first day I used 7g so thats probably the threshold amount for me. I dropped it & switched to senna pod tablets lowest dose that works for now.

Added:
. Gotu Kola extract 100mg standardized to 10mg asiaticosides + extra 300mg non standardized powder, 2 or 3 *2 a day
. concentrated EPA (without DHA or low amounts) limiting to 230mg (peat wasnt a fan especially of DHA and i'm not other than a small baseline, but theres a specific function, and epa is better than dha)
. Boswellia standardized, 50mg-100mg of the acids
will give this combo a go for a few weeks + the low fiber

16charactersitis

@cs3000 all “insoluble fiber” including pectin seems to be problematic. Have you seen this: https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/soluble-fiber-causes-liver-cancer-insoluble-and-antibiotics-prevent-stop-it.26165/
?