Killing serotonin without drugs
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So i've been attempting to lower my serotonin because i'm convinced that it was excess serotonin that ruined my life. Context: i've been suffering for years with severe fatigue, ADHD symptoms, anhedonia, lack of energy, learned helplessness, fearful and introvert behavior, depressive thoughts and etc. All of these symptoms worsened when i was put on a SSRI years ago...
I began to notice how bad this was affecting my life when i started to take Ritalin for my ADHD - a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. I felt amazing, but the effects lasted only for 2 months. Since it stopped working, i tried cypro for a week, and i was shocked in how all of my symptoms disappeared on that week. Mood problems, ADHD, lack of energy, all of that vanished. But i was forced to stop cypro because i started to having some problems with this drug (anticholinergic syndrome symptoms). Currently, i'm microdosing psylocibin mushrooms, and the results are being good to. One of the bizarre side effects i notice when i lower my serotonin is that colors become more vivid, taste and smell improves, and i notice things on my surrounding that i didn't noticed before. Serotonin zombified me. However, i would like to lower my serotonin without relying on drugs because eventually they stop work and the symptoms go back.Diet is basically meat, orange juice, fruit juices, milk, potatoes, some veg, cheese and all of the typical peat stuff. I also do the carrot salad and take aspirin often, and i already tried to take some supplements that supposedly would decrease my serotonin, like L-Theanine, Tyrosine, B vitamins, etc. But none of these things seems to work like an anti-serotonin drug. What i could do?
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@peatyzilian From my notebooks...
Anti-serotonin: The safest that I know of would be theanine, BCAA + tyrosine, caffeine, and a good deal of niacinamide. P5P is dopaminergic, so that would make it anti-serotonin as well. I think the combination of theanine, BCAA, and tyrosine has some serious potential as an anti-serotonin tool organism-wide and as such helpful in issues like weight management, immune system support, libido, and mood. ~haidut
Plus: aspirin, inosine, creatine, collagen, magnesium, thyroids, and CBG (as a 5-HT1A antagonist).
What about having enough sunlight, sleep, and a stimulating (social) life?
How much cypro have you taken?
Have you tried all those methods https://testonation.com/2018/03/17/serotonin-60-ways-to-lower-it/?
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@peatyzilian said in Killing serotonin without drugs:
One of the bizarre side effects i notice when i lower my serotonin is that colors become more vivid, taste and smell improves, and i notice things on my surrounding that i didn't noticed before.
That's very accurate in my experience! You're trying the right things, cypro might work if you mess around with the dosage and times a little bit. a smallish dose at noon right before getting a lot of sun/ light always works wonders for me.
There's also metergoline that I haven't tried, and some otjer options that people use when they have problems with cypro.
For the rest: your best friend is light, and lots of it. Consider buying a 250W clear incandescent bulb (and a ceramic socket for fire safety) and use that a lot. You're making great strides it seems, don't get impatient!
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Heroic amounts of coffee will help you a great deal too. Any source of caffeine, but coffee is the best. As can chocolate.
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@Kvirion said in Killing serotonin without drugs:
How much cypro have you taken?
I was taking 2mg, and it was being good. Problems started to appear when i increased the dose to 4mg and took 6mg in one day (2mg in the afternoon and 4 at night). It was pretty bad, i had mild hallucinations, rampant anxiety, mild delirium and hyperthermia. Reminded me of when I had a bad trip with psilocybin, but maybe it's anticholinergic symptoms.
Since then, I haven't taken it anymore for fear of something similar happening again.@Kvirion said in Killing serotonin without drugs:
Plus: aspirin, inosine, creatine, collagen, magnesium, thyroids, and CBG (as a 5-HT1A antagonist).
I've tried all of this things except thyroid (it's impossible to find in my country, Brazil). They don't have much effect on me.
@Kvirion said in Killing serotonin without drugs:
Have you tried all those methods
Not all of them. I'm gonna check it out, thks! -
@CO3 You gave me a good idea with metergoline bc i just find out that it doesn't need a prescription in my country. Gonna give it a try!
@CO3 said in Killing serotonin without drugs:
Heroic amounts of coffee will help you a great deal too
The problem with coffe is that it irritates my stomach, but usually has good effects on me too.
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@Kvirion said in Killing serotonin without drugs:
Plus: aspirin, inosine, creatine, collagen, magnesium, thyroids, and CBG (as a 5-HT1A antagonist).
@peatyzilian said in Killing serotonin without drugs:
I've tried all of this things except thyroid (it's impossible to find in my country, Brazil). They don't have much effect on me.
How long did you take the inosine? I remember haidut mentioning in I think an interview that it needs to be taken for a month or two. The dose probably is important too.
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@peatyzilian how do you usually make coffee?
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@basebolt said in Killing serotonin without drugs:
How long did you take the inosine?
I only take it occasionally i.e. when I feel "low" (once or twice per month)
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@peatyzilian said in Killing serotonin without drugs:
I was taking 2mg, and it was being good. Problems started to appear when i increased the dose to 4mg and took 6mg in one day (2mg in the afternoon and 4 at night).
It's way too high! The recommended daily dose is between 0.5 and 1 mg.
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@CO3 Usually 1 tablespoon of grounded coffee for 500ml of water
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@basebolt I just realized that i haven't tried inosine either. My mistake.
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@peatyzilian I meant the method.
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@CO3 I use a drip coffee maker, so it's very simple
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@peatyzilian Just asking since that can be an important factor. For example french press can be tough on the stomach due to the oils in there.
Sometimes I think people get discomfort from coffee because they're chronically kind of constipated and the initiation of peristalsis feels wrong to them.
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BCAAs + Phenylalanine in some coffee with plenty of sugar, some aspirin, and cacao powder. Enjoy in the sun.
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Cyproheptadine is not only a serotonin antagonist, but also an endotoxin antagonist (LPS/TLR4), which will reduce inflammatory reactions in the digestive system, thereby reducing serotonin production in the gut at the same time.
Ergot derivatives such as metergoline, bromocriptine, lisuride, lsd and others are fine to keep serotonin in check but are not suitable for daily use. I find that once every other day at least is the best to avoid side effects.
Coffee is a good source of xanthines and palmitoylethanolamide, two components that have shown good results at reducing the damage caused by endotoxins.
Pinocembrin, a flavonoid in Damiana showed inhibition of the TLR4 receptor, it's worth a try.
If you don't tolerate coffee, guarana powder or yerba mate are good substitutes, and they're easy to find in Brazil.
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As some others stated BCAA's are going to be your best friend. Gelatin and casein would be two other good proteins as well. Boosting androgens and/or lowering estrogen will help modulate serotonin. I also think folate acts as a serotonin reuptake promoter, but i think I remember Haidut saying B9 was bad for some reason, can't remember why but you could probably find it on RPF search if Charlie hasn't removed it.
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If you dig into Peat's newsletters with w search tool (impossible if you don't use a text search tool), you will find a lot on serotonin-
The gut produces plenty if not most of the endogenous serotonin from gut bacteria.
The lungs deactivate most of the serotonin in your body.
The platelets transport serotonin to the lungs as long as there is enough carbon dioxide in blood. Otherwise serotonin is free and the more likely it gets into your brain.
So:
It helps to lower your gut bacteria so it isn't teeming with too much bacteria, however balanced your gut micro biome is. This goes without saying that a balanced gut micro biome is better as it keeps no form of microbe from being dominant.
It helps to have enough CO2 in your body. The best way to that is to have good mitochondrial oxidation where sugar is metabolized aerobically making full use of the mitochondria to produce energy and carbon dioxide.
In case you know you're not producing enough CO2, increasing your CO2 intake directly or indirectly will assist your body in meeting your need for more CO2. This can be done by breathing carbogen or drinking carbonated water or taking in baking soda. This may be something you have to do regularly. The dosage and frequency depends on your context. Testing your acid base balance helps. I test my acis base balance daily and it isn't difficult to do. It takes a while to explain, but I'd you're serious about doing it, I will take the time to explain it.
If your lungs or breathing is ailing, chances are you will have difficulty with sleeping, as your lungs' inability to breathe well affects your ability to deactivate serotonin.
If your metabolism and ability to produce CO2 endogenously is fine, and your lungs are letting you breathe well, be may be deficient in zinc and copper as these are important in the body producing enough SOD (superoxide dismutase) needed to deactivate serotonin ( I think zinc is what's needed but it could be copper). Needless. to say, having enough platelets as well as CO2 to being serotonin to the lungs for deactivation is needed.
The other substances mentioned already by other members would tide you by, but longer term you don't want to be dependent on these drugs. You already know that though, as you make quite clear at the start.
I had sleepless nights when I had bronchitis. I have Cypro but it could be that I'm too skittish in using more than four drops of it a day, so I may be guilty of underdosing. But with the use of antibiotics and with nebulization, together with sleeping with carbogen, eventually my lungs started breathing better , and with that I got better sleep.
With all issues gone now and with me back to a regular state of optimal sugar metabolism, confirmed by optimal acid base balance and optimal blood sugar regulation (stable and normal blood sugar all day and night), my sleep now is long and restful. Though I could do some more work on the waking up to pee bit.
