Experiments with transdermal hormones
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@brightside could T enathnate, propionate, or cypionate be used sublingually?
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It won’t work.
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@wester130 Only T undecanoate, which has worse absorption than oral T base if not taken with a fatty meal, and otherwise these two are the same. Both T and DHT can have good oral absorption despite what wikipedia and bodybuilders say.
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@Santosh do you mean 80% DMSO 20% Ethanol by volume or by weight?
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What about T undecanoate in vitamin E?
I thought the vitamin E acts like an ester and keeps absorption high, like itdoes for progesterone.
I am considering T undecanote, Vitamin E and a small bit of everclear in a 30ml bottle.
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@wester130 What is the point of T undecanote instead of just raw T spread throughout the day? Not sure how long the undecanote sticks around, in terms of half-life. I do think it'd be good to find an ingestible solvent for the oral route but not sure how much everclear you could consume without getting in trouble. T in oil will definitely have better bioavailability but not sure if you can use an alcohol solvent then wrap it in oil to make it even better. The raw powder sublingually is hard to hold in my experience; not sure how much can be dissolved by saliva anyway.
I keep reading in scientific places (Sigma-Aldrich, etc.) that T is soluble in vegetable oil but so far I haven't seen it in my experiments. Maybe a little bit but definitely not 100%. And I have read elsewhere that T is not oil soluble at all.
I finally got around to trying about 50-75mg DHT in DMSO and felt absolutely nothing. It's possible that I have retarded androgen receptors. Which would explain a lot of things.
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@Crypt-Keeper Many people don't feel anything from DHT
The point of using Undecanoate is to extend the half life.
The vitamin E solvent would also extend the half life.
Hormones dissolved in natural vitamin E travel on chylomicron droplets, which are not lost via the liver and kidneys. They can stay in the body up to 24 hours.
https://vitalhealthpharmacist.com/product.html?id=0a498e18-eb73-11e5-e8a3-a29a4f07b23a
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@wester130 I would like to do some experiments with Vitamin E oil also. My big issue is that to get a decent bolus of T / DHT I think you would need a lot of Vitamin E which I don't want to do. Especially if it needs to be dissolved.
Also, I am a little weird in the sense that I would really like to have T / DHT return to baseline by bedtime to see if it prevents shutdown. So the shorter half-life of non-esterified T is a bonus for me. Most people aren't concerned about this but it would be a nice-to-have for me. I don't need to have blasted hormones 24/7.
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@Santosh your comment about them being for real is a projection because i considered that about you when you refused to tell me what suchlabs product is bunk. in many of your posts you come off as chronically annoyed xD
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is Testosterone contaminated?
just a about 10mg of pure powder gave me a chemical brain fog
10mg of DHEA and pregnenlone powder individually does not
I don't think Testosterone is manufactured properly
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@wester130 What did it taste like?
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@Crypt-Keeper has no taste, but gives me a chemical feel in the body
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@wester130 Interesting. Mine tastes incredibly bitter, similar to extra-virgin olive oil.
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@Crypt-Keeper is it base powder? does it cause brain fog?
Personally I am going to try testosterone gel and see if I get the chemical feeling
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@wester130 It's supposed to be base powder. I don't experience any brain fog even in high doses. I actually don't experience anything noticeable.
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@Crypt-Keeper have you consdiered making your own T gel?
it's basically isopropyl myristate, ever and T
maybe add in vitamin E?
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@wester130 I have some IPM and MCT oil, just need to get some Everclear. I think the most I can get is 95% alcohol. I would like to experiment with that, but I figure if DMSO didn't give me any perceptible effects, Everclear and IPM might not be worth it.
I am thinking of trying to source some dutasteride and give that a try with the T. I don't want the DHT conversion that oral / transdermal gives.
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@Crypt-Keeper are you joking?? dutasteride?
DMSO is dangerous anyway and does not necessarily increase absorption
IPM increases absorption by 11 times,
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So for the past month ive been experimenting with figuring out the maximum solubility of DHT in ethanol. For me DMSO is not an option for me so ethanol is the next best thing.
Using 99% undenatured ethanol, i was able to achieve up to 70mg/ml. 75mg/ml did not dissolve, twice.
With the 70gm/ml solution i tried 2%, 5% and 10% IPM, and a mix of IPM and tocopherol of 5% total, each being around 2.5%, which brings the total concentration down to 50-53mg/ml.The best by far is the tocopherol and IPM mixture. Leaves minimal to non existent powder line after it dries, has the slowest evaporation of all and is very pleasant to the skin. The IPM only solutions, especially the 2% leaves a very noticeable trace line of powder at the edges of where the liquid was applied, after evaporating.
The only caveats regarding the max solubility is that my ethanol measurement wasnt accurate enough and was maybe off by +- 1-2ml. I used a kitchen scale to measure the equivalent weight in grams and then poured it into a beaker which confirmed the total volume, but none was super accurate so ill try again with a more accurate measuring tool like a pipette.
However im fairly confident that 100mg/ml is not achievable, and i know for a fact 200mg/ml is not. Im saying this because theres someone on the black market selling 10% and 20% DHT gel, and he offers a non DMSO option which he uses ethanol for. I dont know the max solubility of DHT in DMSO, but if you got any of the non DMSO gels, you probably got scammed.
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@pannacottas what effects are you noticing?
From my understanding - DHT basically does nothing. It's testosterone that gives the effect