BIOHACKING by Nathan Hatch, "F*** Portion Control"
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@S-Holmes Let me give you an outside perspective. Hatch has:
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his "free book chapter" was whining about feelings of persecution because he somehow psychically knew his folks only had "the talk" about "long showers" with him but not his brother; also same psychic ability about him being gay at that age.
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he would later come clean and admit most of his weight loss and new website pictures were because his partner forced him to hit the gym, or his partner would leave him
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as Amazoniac points out, Hatch often jumps to conclusions; I have no idea if his work is good or not, it reminds me of old "historical accounts" where the writer admits it was actually a dream or vision
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personally, I've seen you and several others make claims about Hatch and/or his work helping, but can never name specifics, some claiming it would remove potential customers (this seems very parasocial and weird); perhaps you would like to dispel this notion?
So for me, I see a guy who writes like a poet, happens to be the only guy getting certain results from certain things, and then his main physical transformation was from resuming weight lifting (I'm sure the accountability from his partner helped). There is no planet I where I would pay someone like that money.
Like the "well maybe vitamin A is toxic" crowd I notice the same generalized anti-Peat claims which also remain amorphous. I don't personally care about this but the point is that someone who can never describe something isn't saying anything at all.
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@NotShanalotte A lot to unpack here and frankly I don't have the time. But one glaring mistruth in your comment is that he lost weight working out after his partner threatened to leave. He actually says the opposite. The year he regained his health and lost the most weight, he was very sedentary and went to the gym less than once a month. Maybe, like the others who criticize him, you havent read his book either?
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@S-Holmes said in BIOHACKING by Nathan Hatch, "F*** Portion Control":
I've been using Nathan's very "Peaty" recommendations for more than 2 months and my temperature has never been better.
I can't speak for why that individual said you weren't "peaty," but I think the general issue is Nathan's advice itself. At least this is how I see it. Ray Peat has NEVER been against portion control, or more specifically, calorie restriction. This issue came up on another thread here, and it's came up again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again on the RPF. And for whatever reason, people can't seem to wrap their head around this idea, despite the words leaving Peat's mouth on video/audio recording. The idea that Ray has said excessive calories make people fat isn't an idea "pulled out of the ethos," it's from Ray Peat's mouth.
In fact, in nearly every scenario where I've seen someone critique CICO, it's usually been from low-carbers who espouse the insulin theory of fat gain. So basically the people furthest from Ray's ideas. I can't remember them all, but I know Gary Taubes and that guy that made the famous "Fat Head" documentary believed this. I'm not suggesting Nathan is as bad as these people. The mere fact he's supportive of sugar makes him a notch better. But he's still got some ketobro logic to weight gain, as do many others around these parts. Calories do in fact matter, which means portion control matters. Forgoing portion control is choosing to ignore Ray's views about weight loss in the context of euthyroid people (Obviously I'm not discussing hypo people, which Ray has discussed in detail as well. Severe hypothyroidism can make people maintain weight even in caloric deficits.)
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I read his weightlifting comment right off of his website, and it was gone about 2 days after I checked again because I was going to screenshot it. I have an eyewitness who both saw it and was surprised to see it disappear.
If you had paid attention, I told you why I didn't read his book, because he spent the free chapter whining about something all guys go through. His self-victimization is just gross. He should have put his best foot forward rather than waste my time as a potential customer.
If you spent the time reading and answering the posts here rather than kissing his ass you would have plenty of time to "unpack" and you wouldn't have made such a faux pas.
"You don't have the time"? Really It should take 30 seconds to type out a bullet list or outline of what helped you, but it's obvious you don't care about that, it's the attention from white knighting you want. because you're not getting the attention you want. Like your idol, you've wasted my time and said nothing at all.
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@Mulloch94 I see that context is needed. My husband and I eat or drink something carby every 2 to 3 hours (as Nathan instructed). We have both lost weight and our temps and energy levels are great. He says if you wait until you're hungry that's too long. What IS eaten is also important. Pufas and industrial wheat products are forbidden and organic foods are essential. I'm just at a loss as to why people are so opposed. Im guessing I'm the only person here who has actually read the book.
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Friendly discussion is welcome. No tolerance for personal attacks. I do not want the drama. Take it somewhere else please.
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@S-Holmes No I've never read his book. Don't see the purpose, even if it does work I've found my own way through my problems. Also the last person I've seen to take up arms against the CICO school of thought was Cirion on the old forum, and one of his very last posts were him flipping out on Ray for supporting calorie reduction, and then he suddenly disappears. Rage quit the forum I guess, lol. I don't think he was being very truthful about his weight loss journey either. Just my opinion, so I can't prove anything.
I just found it weird he was gaining weight then a couple months later summed up his posting time on the forum by saying "Ray wrong, I keep getting better...bye bye now." I don't wanna be that guy that says "post pics or it never happened," but when someone claims they can defy CICO and eat 5,000-7,000 calories a day and lose weight I'd like to see more than just their words on a thread. Because I equate that statement to some astronaut going into space and tweeting "Wow, the earth really is flat." without sending picture evidence.
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@S-Holmes
Describing your passive-aggressive, ragequitting attitude while criticizing Hatch are not personal attacks. You obviously chose not to read my post, attacked me anyways, and like the pigeon and chessboard, declared yourself the winner. You are causing the drama by going into histrionics every time the topic doesn't go how you want, including ragequitting. Then you answered Mulloch with the info I, and I assume others, wanted anyway. So yeah, I've read your posts on RPF and I know you can write well and be descriptive but you decided to be an absolute donkey to me and, previously, anyone else who criticizes Hatch. So I can't see how describing your actions as ass kissing is a personal attack, you don't react like this to any other subject matter as I recall.Choose virtue over drama in the future, don't project, attack someone and play the victim.
@anyone else
For everyone else, I independently came up with the Hatch recommendations Holmes posted and can tell you, without sufficient hormones and thyroid, it may not make a difference. Very helpful and not to disparage, but many others came to the same conclusion on the (former lol) RPF to "eat what their grandparents ate" and their mileage varied as well. IME, T3 may still be warranted as well as hormonal replacement which I have done much more aggressively than Ray ever recommended. I still stand by not wanting to buy an expensive book for the same reason I wouldn't charge money for ppl to read my own personal experiments. -
@Mulloch94 Then this thread isn't for you. I'm interested in discussions with people who have read and applied his strategies.
My husband has had trouble sleeping through the night for many years. If nothing else had improved that would be enough for us. But there's more. I've tried to raise our metabolism for decades. I love Dr. Peat, but this NEVER happened before now...applying Nathan's methods.
I hope people will stop being a hindrance to others who havent seen much progress.
What's wrong with trying something different? (Rhetorical) -
My temperature just now (and every afternoon for the past 6 weeks).
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Conversation, debate, and exchange 101, a brief "step 0" summary.
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Be sure there's subject matter to discuss. Post something of substance could help people and spark discussion of what works
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When composing, ask yourself questions like "What is your basis for (your or my own) claim(s)? When did you apply Hatchian methods (in the case of this thread)? Which ones? Were you able to keep track of relevant details so others in the future would have clues to go by if direct application didn't work?
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Be open to feedback, even when you don't want to hear it. Attachment to particular people and/or ideas can prevent your mind from flourishing and from truly participating
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Be deliberate about getting your meaning across. Don't be patronizing, but make sure you're producing quality content rather than doing a poor job followed by asking rhetorical questions.
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realize that open forum threads are not your dominion, you cannot prevent others from participating
"Bear...Seek...Seek...Lest."
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@NotShanalotte said in BIOHACKING by Nathan Hatch, "F*** Portion Control":
Conversation, debate, and exchange 101, a brief "step 0" summary.
-
Be sure there's subject matter to discuss. Post something of substance could help people and spark discussion of what works
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When composing, ask yourself questions like "What is your basis for (your or my own) claim(s)? When did you apply Hatchian methods (in the case of this thread)? Which ones? Were you able to keep track of relevant details so others in the future would have clues to go by if direct application didn't work?
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Be open to feedback, even when you don't want to hear it. Attachment to particular people and/or ideas can prevent your mind from flourishing and from truly participating
-
Be deliberate about getting your meaning across. Don't be patronizing, but make sure you're producing quality content rather than doing a poor job followed by asking rhetorical questions.
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realize that open forum threads are not your dominion, you cannot prevent others from participating
Based!
It's probably for the best I'm in the doghouse and she can't see my endorsement.
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@ThinPicking said in BIOHACKING by Nathan Hatch, "F*** Portion Control":
@NotShanalotte said in BIOHACKING by Nathan Hatch, "F*** Portion Control":
Conversation, debate, and exchange 101, a brief "step 0" summary.
-
Be sure there's subject matter to discuss. Post something of substance could help people and spark discussion of what works
-
When composing, ask yourself questions like "What is your basis for (your or my own) claim(s)? When did you apply Hatchian methods (in the case of this thread)? Which ones? Were you able to keep track of relevant details so others in the future would have clues to go by if direct application didn't work?
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Be open to feedback, even when you don't want to hear it. Attachment to particular people and/or ideas can prevent your mind from flourishing and from truly participating
-
Be deliberate about getting your meaning across. Don't be patronizing, but make sure you're producing quality content rather than doing a poor job followed by asking rhetorical questions.
-
realize that open forum threads are not your dominion, you cannot prevent others from participating
Based!
It's probably for the best I'm in the doghouse and she can't see my endorsement.
Thank you, and yeah it's so weird on RPF she was eloquent and made long responses in most cases but now just making conversation is too much effort. We're better off this way.
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@S-Holmes What is your typical day in eating like (if there is any 'typical' day)? Do you use supplements?
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@BabyDuck We do take supplements. And we try to eat as close to Nathan's recommendations as possible. The things we eat now, every day, that we didn't before (or didn't eat a lot of): foods with tannin and beta carotene (NOT the supplement, usually carrots) with EVERY meal, daily fruit shake with green tea steeped in milk, casein, and tiger nut milk, organic sprouted or sourdough bread. Loaded salad (with cucumber, radishes, carrots, red cabbage, etc.) We eat meat, not many eggs, a little organic pasta. We absolutely avoid commercial and non organic wheat flour products.
We have sodium citrate a few times a day (lemon juice with salt added), and a cup of black tea with C, selenium, and a little lithium. We use sugar freely. We still have a little Mexican Cola daily.We avoid pufas (oils) completely, but some nuts are recommended (with the skin intact, for tannin).
One thing I didn't really expect. If you've been hypothyroid your entire life, when your metabolism is back in working order it can be uncomfortable. There will be some discomfort as healing begins. Even my husband, who never had a healing crisis in his life, has been having pains. Fortunately, they just come and go.
The supplements are a little complicated, and some should be taken together for full effect.. I'm still working those out.
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@S-Holmes said in BIOHACKING by Nathan Hatch, "F*** Portion Control":
One thing I didn't really expect. If you've been hypothyroid your entire life, when your metabolism is back in working order it can be uncomfortable. There will be some discomfort as healing begins. Even my husband, who never had a healing crisis in his life, has been having pains. Fortunately, they just come and go.
Please expound on this
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@Peatful Not sure what you want to know but I can try and answer specific questions.
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What discomfort
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@Peatful Mostly his legs. But as I said, the pains came and went. He hasn't had any in several days. We live on a steep wooded hill and over the weekend he was burning a large brush pile at the bottom, which required many trips up and down the hill, all day long. Yesterday he had a little swelling in his knee that had never healed properly from an injury and surgery in high school. It's already back to normal. His temps are better than mine, and he is sleeping well (after decades of getting only 4 hours a night). We take extra aspirin, if needed, on days when a healing crisis is too distracting.
After I received an ethically sourced stem cell IV last year, I had a healing crisis (severe vertigo and leg weakness). I could barely walk. It lasted several weeks. Fortunately I knew that I was healing and it would pass. It did.
We are both in our 60's and not on any prescription meds. We never go to the doctor, although I've had self managed (homeopathy) Epstein-Barr since my 20's. We do take otc substances and supplements recommended by Dr. Peat, Georgi and Nathan.
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@BabyDuck I forgot one important thing. Silicic acid. I dissolve bamboo silica in lemon juice. Then add sugar, acacia fiber, modified citrus pectin, and water. The fiber and pectin aren't necessarily important but I like taking them for gut health.
