Glucose loading cures everything?
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@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
How often and for how long do you go outside per week when you say you are 95-99.9% housebound?
I rarely do, and when I do it's for a very short walk. Luckily I have a balcony which functions as an extra room when the weather allows it. I spend most of my time outside for most of the warmer half year, and with the windows and doors wide open.
For comparison, when I had the capacity for it, before I had covid again a couple of years ago, I tried all the typical advice regarding sunlight and grounding. I also spent a lot of time outdoors before I became housebound, and neither grounding or early sunlight seemed to be supportive in ways they were "supposed to". I've had some of my worst PEM after spending time in nature, which was extra difficult because I didn't know what was going on back then.
I found that glucose had much more effect on my circadian rhythm than sunlight early in the morning ever had. I also feel much more grounded now, despite being unable to leave the house much still.
It will be interesting to see what happens when spring comes though. Maybe those interventions can be supportive now that something else appears to have clicked into place.
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I've faded it out and completely stopped doing it in late January. I.e. after 7 months. It just didn't lead me any further. I'm not better off than when I had started, plus I see lots of ageing in my face (which may be partly or completely due to other events).
As for the biggest benefits I had from glucose:
I've noticed that if I crank up Acetyl-carnitine to a few grams before going to bed I don't wake up from an elevated pulse 5hours later. So a huge issue in me actually seems to be lack of steady-state FAO. For whatever reason still unknown to me.
I also suspect some degree of applicable truth in the concepts of cuproptosis or ferroptosis in the causative pathomechanisms for me as I've noticed alleviations from taking lots of molybdenum (>2mg pd) and zinc and NAC so I'm therefore pursueing that now.Now I only occassionally munch on smaller amounts of glucose when I'm outdoors and need to power through some errands.
I admit, however, that my mood's been slightly more on the sad side since stopping the regular glucose.I want to take up these previous bits from this thread and bring up butyrate,
as I also had wondered how glucose could feed and benefit the cells along the GI system:@CrumblingCookie said:
@S-Holmes said:
I seem to tolerate the glucose better by adding a small amount of acacia fiber and/or modified citrus pectin. I also add a bit of bamboo silica.Interesting! Have you noticed any good effects yet further down the GI system?
--> Butyrate should be equally important as glucose. Or even of primary importance, depending on individual circumstances. To feed the enteric cells. And fix that gut lining. Which also has downstream effects since that being impaired is one major factor of why complex carbohydrates aren't nearly as effective as pure glucose (as explored in this thread before).
There's also research on how in conditions of stress, trauma, surgery, malnourishment etc. the intestinal metabolism is being significantly ramped up in reaction to or preparation or anticipation of increased nutrient needs.
So I am thinking, if such increased demand is not being met by an appropriate supply of butyrate for the colonocytes' huge energy expenditure the intestinal cells are actually the first tissues to starve by conditions of stress, trauma, surgery, malnourishment etc.
And glucose won't fix them, because they rely on SCFA and butyrate in particular.
To put up a provocative hypothesis for further discussion: Dr. David Stephen's goal to heal the traumatized brain by feeding it glucose must first tackle to heal the traumatized gut by feeding it butyrate. It's at the very least something to consider in any glucose protocol enthusiast who has even the slightest gut troubles. L-threonine is co-required with butyrate for the mucin synthesis.
The appropriate butyrate products would be microencapsulated for gradual/delayed release throughout GI transit. For that the butyrate is usually bound into (gelatinized)starch or celluloses.There's much to be said about butyrate (sodium butyrate = NaB), and some of it sounds very similar to what people are after with being glucose replete. Here's a bit from Lokzo in the former RPF:
"many studies have shown that at least some of these beneficial effects can be attributed NaB’s ability to increase acetylation around the promoters of neurotrophic factors, such as BDNF, GDNF and NGF and thus increasing their transcription. Other studies have demonstrated the importance of immediate early genes, including c-Fos and Homer1a, which are activity dependent genes involved in plasticity. Based on these data, NaB is capable of upregulating a suite of genes that promote survival, plasticity and regeneration."
Mauritio had also opened a thread on butyrate there.
Addendum:
Strangely coincidental, after my posting the above Dr. Joseph Mercola has also released a well summarized article on butyrate early this morning and it fits into the context of using glucose and the impaired tolerance/utilization of complex carbohydrates and foods. He's really sped up doing his homework. -
I really appreciate everyone's input. Doctors have no answers so I rely on my smart friends for information and assistance.
No you don't. You block them when they offer the most tenuous of pushback.
Very disapointing.
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She's been through a lot Shroud. Don't take it personally.
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Stop speaking reason to my emotion, Thin! But, I question who's been thru more... always a precarious comparison
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@CrumblingCookie I'm still on glucose, but not high doses. I can always tell when I need it. Also, still taking modified citrus pectin and acacia. I don't seem to have any ill effects from them.
In other news I've started taking calcium beta hydroxybutyrate, magnesium beta hydroxybutyrate and sodium beta hydroxybutyrate to lose weight. As I understand, these are exogenous ketones so they provide energy without spiking stress hormones like a ketogenic diet would. Would you give these thumbs up or thumbs down?
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Anyone here still doing glucose, or is it just me? I'm doing 14-15 tbsp a day and still think my adaptive immune system is doing "pending admin". I also think I understand not of why it's working.
The pending admin now seem to be allergies. I've realized I have a very severe nickel allergy - and that nickel can trigger innate immunity and activate the Itaconate shunt. It's a big puzzle piece for me. The rabbit hole of systemic nickel allergy is deep and quite overwhelming still, but I've realized pro metabolic is fairly low nickel (especially since I have intuitively removed the food with high nickel), so by chance I've been having low nickel foods since 2021.
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You're free to make Shroud and I definitely don't mean to imply you, I or anyone else hasn't. But to go through isn't necessarily to move out. We may be capable of accumulating a debt. That may be the issue with the aforementioned.
Still they can only block you on one internet. Or ignore you in one realm. Maybe better to think nothing than ill.
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@gentlepotato I wonder how many of us who did high dose glucose therapy and had weight gain and other issues while on it have fungal overgrowth. As I mentioned before, I'm still using it but have added exogenous ketones for weight loss and have started antifungals (H202 drops, topical castor oil, undecylenic acid, proteolytic enzymes).
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@S-Holmes May I ask how much were you eating while doing the high doses of glucose? Calories and macros?
I've been having more than 2500 the whole time, at only 12-15 tbsp. Right now I'm between 2500 and 2900, macros 20ish day and protein (120-130 grams of protein) and 60+ carbs. I'm loosing weight.
So my thinking is that higher amounts of glucose, especially in a ratio to lower amounts of nutrient dense foods, will deplete your stores of nutrients fast, and with lower calories you'll get less nutrition in. It's not the glucose that's the issue, it's the ratio.
What the glucose is likely doing is giving the immune system enough fuel to avoid an Itaconate shunt. That means a higher demand for energy. This is in part why I've been against the enormous doses of glucose, because that means you need much more overall food - and that seems to have been a bad match, because some where getting nausea and stomach upset from the massive amounts of glucose.
I'm glad you're still taking it, and I think consistency in smaller doses is better. Hope it gives the relief you're looking for!
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@gentlepotato Tbh, I didn't track calories, macros, or micros. We know high blood sugar can feed fungal infections. It's a conundrum for sure because humans AND fungi need sugar for fuel. Carb and sugar restriction is not an option. Ketogenic diet is not an option since it raises stress hormones, and also Ray said if we don't provide fuel for "candida" it will break down our own tissues to get what it needs. I took antibiotics for years in my mid teens, and in my early twenties developed an autoimmune disease. Did overuse of antibiotics set me up for lifelong fungal overgrowth? I don't know.
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@gentlepotato Tbh, I didn't track calories, macros, or micros. We know high blood sugar can feed fungal infections. It's a conundrum for sure because humans AND fungi need sugar for fuel. Carb and sugar restriction is not an option. Ketogenic diet is not an option since it raises stress hormones, and also Ray said if we don't provide fuel for "candida" it will break down our own tissues to get what it needs. I took antibiotics for years in my mid teens, and in my early twenties developed an autoimmune disease. Did overuse of antibiotics set me up for lifelong fungal overgrowth? I don't know.
Hmmmm.
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@S-Holmes what's the source in the last post about glucose and candida? I don't know much about candida, but is it overgrowth in the digestive tract? I'd say the main way to avoid that is motility and avoiding deficiencies.
Did you have high blood sugar? I've tested daily for months and then twice weekly. Never had high blood sugar, and my long term blood glucose is also not elevated, so glucose does not equal high blood sugar.
The way I see it the glucose spread out is a tool for avoiding low blood sugar (amongst other things).
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@S-Holmes said:
In other news I've started taking calcium beta hydroxybutyrate, magnesium beta hydroxybutyrate and sodium beta hydroxybutyrate to lose weight. As I understand, these are exogenous ketones so they provide energy without spiking stress hormones like a ketogenic diet would. Would you give these thumbs up or thumbs down?
I think they are good but I'm finding it difficult to clearly distinguish the different pharmacodynamics and effects of proper butyrate, hydroxylated butyrate (BHB) and hydroxylated&methylated butyrate (HMB).
So far I've got the impression that butyrate preferentially reaches the GI cells and the liver but don't know where BHB's and HMB's effects overlap and where not.
I'm increasing from 1g butyrate to 2g butyrate per day. I get a relative lot of extra sodium from that and can't find unhydroxylated potassium butyrate being offered anywhere. Sources for the K-BHB or Mg-BHB are rare too.Interesting also for immunity that e.g. leukocytes preferably burn SCFAs. I've saved a paper somewhere on which cells rely on which energy metabolism. Will look that up.
PS: Against fungal issues perhaps blast them with oral borax and those (hemi)cellulases (must be included in enzyme formulas) to degrade their biofilms and cell walls, plus berberine, plus L-arginine (read Travis) and turpentine.
