Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1

[Mossy]

@LucH said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

If I decode the last two posts, trying to find an explanation why you plateau:
If you haven't the adequate amount of Vit K2 to activate other liposoluble vitamins, you're going to get a mess with 5 000 UI. More if 10.000 UI.
Note I take 5 000 UI D3 in winter and springtime, 2 000 UI in the summer time when I don't go out.
But I always take K2 before taking a supplement higher than 2 000 UI Vit D3. We need a lot of fat to assimilate K2. Proportional.
And I never take a supplement of Ca above 200-250 mg. I do take a calcium supplement when my log tells me I'm under 850 mg Ca, from more than a 200 mg distance, considering the whole acid-base balance to determine my decision (followed on cronometer.com).
For Ca, I target 850 - 1200 mg Ca. Never under 650 mg. However It could be OK round 550 mg Ca if you live like an islander, feeding with white see fish and a high intake of vegetable (potassium), and working outside. Not eating much processed foodstuff (made from flour and added devitalized sugar).
Sugar is OK, provided you do not store (insulin reaction in excess), you metabolize well and don't lack essential nutrients to burn fuel.
I mean you have to adapt the amount of glucose brought to your energy level / expenditure.

I do take K2, but I've been taking it several hours after the D3.  I thought I had read some place to do that, as they compete if taken at the same time — but I can't find that anywhere in my notes.  You note that you take K2 before D3; is there a reason you don't combine them?  As well, I'll reduce the 10,000 IU dose, based on yours and Jennifer's comments.  I'll start low and work my way up as needed, versus loading with large doses up front.

Do you have any thoughts about getting all calcium and magnesium from food when supplementing D3 and K2?  Calcium can be hard on my gut, but I have experienced some relief making calcium acetate, adding vinegar to calcium carbonate.

Btw, in searching my notes, I see a comment from you in 2015, from RPF, seeming to support the use of taurine with fat soluble vitamins.  Do you have any experience or comments on this to share, at almost 10 years later?

Thank you.

P.S. I've translated your previous link into English, so that is giving me some additional information. But you're still welcome to provide anything that you think would help. Thank you.

[Mossy]

@drjdmccoy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

Magnesium pidolate powder. I’ve used every magnesium and this one has been very unique. High absorption of the magnesium and the pyroglutamic acid is a game changer

Cheers

Interesting. I've never heard of that magnesium in all my years of research. (Of maybe I have and I just forget.) Could you comment on that "game changer" pyroglutamic acid. Does it help you digest better? Thanks.

[LucH]

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

I see a comment from you in 2015, from RPF, seeming to support the use of taurine with fat soluble vitamins.  Do you have any experience or comments on this to share, at almost 10 years later?

I see minimum 3 targets why I'd take a taurine supplement. I take 2 x 0.5 g in a shake.

• Taurine for optimizing bile fluidity. I made once a CaOx (lithiasis). Under control with citrate and optimizing acid-base balance.
  https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2061-comment-eliminer-loxalate-oxca-lithiase#29853
  => Useful ingredients to get rid of oxalates
• Taurine for optimizing magnesium retention in cells.
  I take magnesium bisglycinate (1 dose: 2.5 g) when under 1/3 from RDA (420) (or to manage cramps and when I feel stressful, + potassium)
  We need taurine for carrying Mg on an easiest way and Vit B6 to keep Mg inside the cell.
  Gaba-like effect from glycine (against anxiety and stress).
• Taurine as anti-oxydant for brain.
  My mother was DT2 at 55 and got Alzheimer at 80ies. Died at 91.
  My father got brain AVC at 92 and died 6 month later, but not from AVC.
  I’m nearly 71 and feel fine if we except some low-grade inflammation and weak body temp in winter (under control).

*) Useful info on Taurine (in French, translator needed for the second link)

• What makes taurine so important (Video in English)
  https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1840-quest-ce-qui-rend-la-taurine-si-importante#25227
  => Detox – neuromodulation – osmoregulation – etc.
• Aider votre cerveau à résister au stress
  https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t831-magnesium-et-taurine-pour-le-cerveau?highlight=taurine (taurine for brain)
  Excerpt from the book: Chapitre 6. Un cerveau au top. Bernard DOUTRES (author, pharmacist, specialized in dietetics and nutrition).

[Jennifer]

@Serotoninskeptic, thank you. That’s great!

[PeatPerspective]

@LucH Yeah I would love a source. I just read the Peat Whisperer by Danny Roddy where he recommended 5k-7k calcium a day

[Jennifer]

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy, I have a doctor treating my thyroid but if she refused to, I would feel confident ordering from a Mexican pharmacy. I feel my best when my TSH is <0.1, but doctors always pull me off my med when it gets that low and I’m expecting my current doctor to do the same. I’ve spoken with her about it and she’s willing to treat my symptoms, but only to a point. If my TSH gets below range, she’ll most likely reduce my dose so I’ll have to supplement the Armour with TyroMax and stop taking the latter a month before I get new labs.

Ok, good to know. You've reminded me that Labs would still be good to have when self-treating, so if/when I start thyroid I will have to order those myself. I may start vitamin D3 first, then go to thyroid based on how that makes me feel, with pro-thyroid being the goal.

Yes, I find labs are important to keep track of my cholesterol level—Ray told me if it’s too low, thyroid can trigger stress hormones—but temp, pulse, achilles tendon reflex, urine output and symptoms have been better diagnostics for my thyroid function than blood values. With that said, my doctor won’t prescribe me medication without a thyroid panel, and I feel my best when my TSH is suppressed. I think that’s a good idea to start with D3. I do wish I had trusted my intuition and got on thyroid before exhausting every other thyroid optimizing avenue, but there was a learning curve even with NDT and for some people, D3 and diet are enough to turn the hypothyroid tide.

I appreciate your thoroughness and additional information. The fact that Ray said those markers are even better than blood values gives me quite a bit of confidence to go with those, at least for starters. I realize I won't know my cholesterol without a blood test, but if a stress response is triggered that would be obvious. I do remember you mentioning that you did feel best with a low TSH, "...as low as .008", so I have no problem attempting the same. Ok, so it sounds like you felt you wasted time and energy when you should've just gone to thyroid. If I wasn't so sensitive to supplements I probably would do that. I took 10,000 IU of D3 the night before last, with calcium acetate (calcium carbonate in vinegar) an hour prior to it (in an attempt to mitigate negative effects from the D3) and it has me a little wired, which turns into wired and tired at times, but not as bad as I can be on most supplements. Depending on how I feel by tomorrow, I will either continue with this current D3 (not certain about the calcium), possibly try the lichen-derived D3 (though the potency, being considerably less, wouldn't allow me to use 10,000 IU doses cost-effectively), or jump in with the thyroid—but it's that learning curve you and everyone else speaks of that I will have to be ready to deal with. It sounds like thyroid is better for you than D3, but that maybe thyroid is more involved and creates more of a dependency. Or am I misinterpreting?

Oh, Ray didn’t tell me that. I find them to be more reliable. Regarding vitamin D3–do you have a deficiency and if not, could you have taken too much? 10,000 IUs is quite a large dose. I usually take 2,000 IUs in the spring and summer and 5,000 IUs in the fall and winter. Thyroid is definitely better for me than D3 but is more involved, yes. I know it’s said that vitamin D is more like a hormone or pro-hormone but for me, it’s nothing like taking actual hormones. The latter is far more potent, IME.

I do have a vitamin D deficiency, which is why I tend to be determined to make supplementing with it work. My thought was to load up at first and then taper down to a lower dose. Here is a quote from Peat about a dose that high that has given me the confidence to try it. (This is someone else asking him the question, not me.) :

Q: “Was tested low in vitamin D. Would supplementing 8,000 units a day be too much?”

“If you figure that being in a bathing suit in the sun for 20 or 30 minutes enough to just start turning pink, that can make 10,000 or 15,000 units. So 5,000 or 10,000 units is never gonna be harmful. I've never heard of 10,000 a day being harmful.” - Ray Peat

You're lucky you've had such success with thyroid. If this experiment with vitamin D3 doesn't work out, I'll probably go to thyroid next.

Both times I had a deficiency (6 and 10), the treatment was 50,000 IUs once a week until I was replete so I don’t consider 10,000 IUs harmful, I just questioned if it was too large a dose for you given your reaction to it and sensitivity to supplements.

[Mossy]

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy, I have a doctor treating my thyroid but if she refused to, I would feel confident ordering from a Mexican pharmacy. I feel my best when my TSH is <0.1, but doctors always pull me off my med when it gets that low and I’m expecting my current doctor to do the same. I’ve spoken with her about it and she’s willing to treat my symptoms, but only to a point. If my TSH gets below range, she’ll most likely reduce my dose so I’ll have to supplement the Armour with TyroMax and stop taking the latter a month before I get new labs.

Ok, good to know. You've reminded me that Labs would still be good to have when self-treating, so if/when I start thyroid I will have to order those myself. I may start vitamin D3 first, then go to thyroid based on how that makes me feel, with pro-thyroid being the goal.

Yes, I find labs are important to keep track of my cholesterol level—Ray told me if it’s too low, thyroid can trigger stress hormones—but temp, pulse, achilles tendon reflex, urine output and symptoms have been better diagnostics for my thyroid function than blood values. With that said, my doctor won’t prescribe me medication without a thyroid panel, and I feel my best when my TSH is suppressed. I think that’s a good idea to start with D3. I do wish I had trusted my intuition and got on thyroid before exhausting every other thyroid optimizing avenue, but there was a learning curve even with NDT and for some people, D3 and diet are enough to turn the hypothyroid tide.

I appreciate your thoroughness and additional information. The fact that Ray said those markers are even better than blood values gives me quite a bit of confidence to go with those, at least for starters. I realize I won't know my cholesterol without a blood test, but if a stress response is triggered that would be obvious. I do remember you mentioning that you did feel best with a low TSH, "...as low as .008", so I have no problem attempting the same. Ok, so it sounds like you felt you wasted time and energy when you should've just gone to thyroid. If I wasn't so sensitive to supplements I probably would do that. I took 10,000 IU of D3 the night before last, with calcium acetate (calcium carbonate in vinegar) an hour prior to it (in an attempt to mitigate negative effects from the D3) and it has me a little wired, which turns into wired and tired at times, but not as bad as I can be on most supplements. Depending on how I feel by tomorrow, I will either continue with this current D3 (not certain about the calcium), possibly try the lichen-derived D3 (though the potency, being considerably less, wouldn't allow me to use 10,000 IU doses cost-effectively), or jump in with the thyroid—but it's that learning curve you and everyone else speaks of that I will have to be ready to deal with. It sounds like thyroid is better for you than D3, but that maybe thyroid is more involved and creates more of a dependency. Or am I misinterpreting?

Oh, Ray didn’t tell me that. I find them to be more reliable. Regarding vitamin D3–do you have a deficiency and if not, could you have taken too much? 10,000 IUs is quite a large dose. I usually take 2,000 IUs in the spring and summer and 5,000 IUs in the fall and winter. Thyroid is definitely better for me than D3 but is more involved, yes. I know it’s said that vitamin D is more like a hormone or pro-hormone but for me, it’s nothing like taking actual hormones. The latter is far more potent, IME.

I do have a vitamin D deficiency, which is why I tend to be determined to make supplementing with it work. My thought was to load up at first and then taper down to a lower dose. Here is a quote from Peat about a dose that high that has given me the confidence to try it. (This is someone else asking him the question, not me.) :

Q: “Was tested low in vitamin D. Would supplementing 8,000 units a day be too much?”

“If you figure that being in a bathing suit in the sun for 20 or 30 minutes enough to just start turning pink, that can make 10,000 or 15,000 units. So 5,000 or 10,000 units is never gonna be harmful. I've never heard of 10,000 a day being harmful.” - Ray Peat

You're lucky you've had such success with thyroid. If this experiment with vitamin D3 doesn't work out, I'll probably go to thyroid next.

Both times I had a deficiency (6 and 10), the treatment was 50,000 IUs once a week until I was replete so I don’t consider 10,000 IUs harmful, I just questioned if it was too large a dose for you given your reaction to it and sensitivity to supplements.

Ok, so maybe there would be something to this initial loading phase, and then tapering off. Good to know that this approach worked for you. I'm not exactly certain why I'm so sensitive to supplements, but for the first time in many years I've been able to take D3 and K2, every other day, and not crash with debilitating side effects. Though, to be cautious, that could still happen. I have a feeling the calcium acetate, which I've never taken before, helped assimilate the D3 and K2. Just a guess. As we all know, it's a lot of trial and error — some more than others — before we get to a place of consistent success.

[Mossy]

@LucH said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

I see a comment from you in 2015, from RPF, seeming to support the use of taurine with fat soluble vitamins.  Do you have any experience or comments on this to share, at almost 10 years later?

I see minimum 3 targets why I'd take a taurine supplement. I take 2 x 0.5 g in a shake.

• Taurine for optimizing bile fluidity. I made once a CaOx (lithiasis). Under control with citrate and optimizing acid-base balance.
  https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2061-comment-eliminer-loxalate-oxca-lithiase#29853
  => Useful ingredients to get rid of oxalates
• Taurine for optimizing magnesium retention in cells.
  I take magnesium bisglycinate (1 dose: 2.5 g) when under 1/3 from RDA (420) (or to manage cramps and when I feel stressful, + potassium)
  We need taurine for carrying Mg on an easiest way and Vit B6 to keep Mg inside the cell.
  Gaba-like effect from glycine (against anxiety and stress).
• Taurine as anti-oxydant for brain.
  My mother was DT2 at 55 and got Alzheimer at 80ies. Died at 91.
  My father got brain AVC at 92 and died 6 month later, but not from AVC.
  I’m nearly 71 and feel fine if we except some low-grade inflammation and weak body temp in winter (under control).

*) Useful info on Taurine (in French, translator needed for the second link)

• What makes taurine so important (Video in English)
  https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1840-quest-ce-qui-rend-la-taurine-si-importante#25227
  => Detox – neuromodulation – osmoregulation – etc.
• Aider votre cerveau à résister au stress
  https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t831-magnesium-et-taurine-pour-le-cerveau?highlight=taurine (taurine for brain)
  Excerpt from the book: Chapitre 6. Un cerveau au top. Bernard DOUTRES (author, pharmacist, specialized in dietetics and nutrition).

Thank you for this. There is a lot here, but I'll translate and take a look as time allows. Thanks again.

[LucH]

@PeatPerspective said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

Yeah I would love a source. I just read the Peat Whisperer by Danny Roddy where he recommended 5k-7k calcium a day

K2 plays a key role in the activation of hormones that regulate calcium metabolism: osteocalcin, which is involved in the mineralization of bone matrix, and matrix Gla protein (MGP), which protects soft tissues against calcification.
The role of vitamin K2 is not limited to these functions alone. Here, it is much more than a co-factor because vitamin K2 is the substance that allows dependent proteins A and D to activate/come to life. While vitamins A and D act as signaling molecules, telling cells to produce certain proteins, vitamin K2 activates these proteins, giving them the physical ability to bind calcium.
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1935-optimiser-l-assimilation-du-calcium-en-supplement#29858
See 2nd &: Why taking K2 before and not after taking high dose vitamin D3 (5 000 UI).

[Ecstatic_Hamster]

The best supplementing regimen for magnesium I have found, and it's also the cheapest, is to mix magnesium carbonate with apple cider vinegar. I use about 1300 milligrams of magnesium carbonate with about 40 milliliters of apple cider vinegar, which largely neutralizes it but leaves it a bit acid. Then I mix it with water and drink it.

This has been extremely helpful because the magnesium seems to work very well in this state and I never get any bowel problems. It does stop constipation but seems to be a very easily metabolized form and the apple cider vinegar forming the acetate seems to be very good for my gut.

[Jennifer]

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy, I have a doctor treating my thyroid but if she refused to, I would feel confident ordering from a Mexican pharmacy. I feel my best when my TSH is <0.1, but doctors always pull me off my med when it gets that low and I’m expecting my current doctor to do the same. I’ve spoken with her about it and she’s willing to treat my symptoms, but only to a point. If my TSH gets below range, she’ll most likely reduce my dose so I’ll have to supplement the Armour with TyroMax and stop taking the latter a month before I get new labs.

Ok, good to know. You've reminded me that Labs would still be good to have when self-treating, so if/when I start thyroid I will have to order those myself. I may start vitamin D3 first, then go to thyroid based on how that makes me feel, with pro-thyroid being the goal.

Yes, I find labs are important to keep track of my cholesterol level—Ray told me if it’s too low, thyroid can trigger stress hormones—but temp, pulse, achilles tendon reflex, urine output and symptoms have been better diagnostics for my thyroid function than blood values. With that said, my doctor won’t prescribe me medication without a thyroid panel, and I feel my best when my TSH is suppressed. I think that’s a good idea to start with D3. I do wish I had trusted my intuition and got on thyroid before exhausting every other thyroid optimizing avenue, but there was a learning curve even with NDT and for some people, D3 and diet are enough to turn the hypothyroid tide.

I appreciate your thoroughness and additional information. The fact that Ray said those markers are even better than blood values gives me quite a bit of confidence to go with those, at least for starters. I realize I won't know my cholesterol without a blood test, but if a stress response is triggered that would be obvious. I do remember you mentioning that you did feel best with a low TSH, "...as low as .008", so I have no problem attempting the same. Ok, so it sounds like you felt you wasted time and energy when you should've just gone to thyroid. If I wasn't so sensitive to supplements I probably would do that. I took 10,000 IU of D3 the night before last, with calcium acetate (calcium carbonate in vinegar) an hour prior to it (in an attempt to mitigate negative effects from the D3) and it has me a little wired, which turns into wired and tired at times, but not as bad as I can be on most supplements. Depending on how I feel by tomorrow, I will either continue with this current D3 (not certain about the calcium), possibly try the lichen-derived D3 (though the potency, being considerably less, wouldn't allow me to use 10,000 IU doses cost-effectively), or jump in with the thyroid—but it's that learning curve you and everyone else speaks of that I will have to be ready to deal with. It sounds like thyroid is better for you than D3, but that maybe thyroid is more involved and creates more of a dependency. Or am I misinterpreting?

Oh, Ray didn’t tell me that. I find them to be more reliable. Regarding vitamin D3–do you have a deficiency and if not, could you have taken too much? 10,000 IUs is quite a large dose. I usually take 2,000 IUs in the spring and summer and 5,000 IUs in the fall and winter. Thyroid is definitely better for me than D3 but is more involved, yes. I know it’s said that vitamin D is more like a hormone or pro-hormone but for me, it’s nothing like taking actual hormones. The latter is far more potent, IME.

I do have a vitamin D deficiency, which is why I tend to be determined to make supplementing with it work. My thought was to load up at first and then taper down to a lower dose. Here is a quote from Peat about a dose that high that has given me the confidence to try it. (This is someone else asking him the question, not me.) :

Q: “Was tested low in vitamin D. Would supplementing 8,000 units a day be too much?”

“If you figure that being in a bathing suit in the sun for 20 or 30 minutes enough to just start turning pink, that can make 10,000 or 15,000 units. So 5,000 or 10,000 units is never gonna be harmful. I've never heard of 10,000 a day being harmful.” - Ray Peat

You're lucky you've had such success with thyroid. If this experiment with vitamin D3 doesn't work out, I'll probably go to thyroid next.

Both times I had a deficiency (6 and 10), the treatment was 50,000 IUs once a week until I was replete so I don’t consider 10,000 IUs harmful, I just questioned if it was too large a dose for you given your reaction to it and sensitivity to supplements.

Ok, so maybe there would be something to this initial loading phase, and then tapering off. Good to know that this approach worked for you. I'm not exactly certain why I'm so sensitive to supplements, but for the first time in many years I've been able to take D3 and K2, every other day, and not crash with debilitating side effects. Though, to be cautious, that could still happen. I have a feeling the calcium acetate, which I've never taken before, helped assimilate the D3 and K2. Just a guess. As we all know, it's a lot of trial and error — some more than others — before we get to a place of consistent success.

I’m sensitive to supplements too so I understand. I’m really glad to hear D3 and K2 aren’t causing debilitating side-effects. Fingers crossed you continue to tolerate them.

[Mossy]

@Ecstatic_Hamster said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

The best supplementing regimen for magnesium I have found, and it's also the cheapest, is to mix magnesium carbonate with apple cider vinegar. I use about 1300 milligrams of magnesium carbonate with about 40 milliliters of apple cider vinegar, which largely neutralizes it but leaves it a bit acid. Then I mix it with water and drink it.

This has been extremely helpful because the magnesium seems to work very well in this state and I never get any bowel problems. It does stop constipation but seems to be a very easily metabolized form and the apple cider vinegar forming the acetate seems to be very good for my gut.

Excellent timing. I had just made a note to myself to try magnesium carbonate, per one of Peat's articles. I will try this as my magnesium source, along with D3, K2, and Calcium. I've just started calcium acetate, using calcium carbonate in vinegar. I thought it worth asking if you know of a reason why I couldn't just add the magnesium carbonate to the mix of calcium carbonate and vinegar?

[Mossy]

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy, I have a doctor treating my thyroid but if she refused to, I would feel confident ordering from a Mexican pharmacy. I feel my best when my TSH is <0.1, but doctors always pull me off my med when it gets that low and I’m expecting my current doctor to do the same. I’ve spoken with her about it and she’s willing to treat my symptoms, but only to a point. If my TSH gets below range, she’ll most likely reduce my dose so I’ll have to supplement the Armour with TyroMax and stop taking the latter a month before I get new labs.

Ok, good to know. You've reminded me that Labs would still be good to have when self-treating, so if/when I start thyroid I will have to order those myself. I may start vitamin D3 first, then go to thyroid based on how that makes me feel, with pro-thyroid being the goal.

Yes, I find labs are important to keep track of my cholesterol level—Ray told me if it’s too low, thyroid can trigger stress hormones—but temp, pulse, achilles tendon reflex, urine output and symptoms have been better diagnostics for my thyroid function than blood values. With that said, my doctor won’t prescribe me medication without a thyroid panel, and I feel my best when my TSH is suppressed. I think that’s a good idea to start with D3. I do wish I had trusted my intuition and got on thyroid before exhausting every other thyroid optimizing avenue, but there was a learning curve even with NDT and for some people, D3 and diet are enough to turn the hypothyroid tide.

I appreciate your thoroughness and additional information. The fact that Ray said those markers are even better than blood values gives me quite a bit of confidence to go with those, at least for starters. I realize I won't know my cholesterol without a blood test, but if a stress response is triggered that would be obvious. I do remember you mentioning that you did feel best with a low TSH, "...as low as .008", so I have no problem attempting the same. Ok, so it sounds like you felt you wasted time and energy when you should've just gone to thyroid. If I wasn't so sensitive to supplements I probably would do that. I took 10,000 IU of D3 the night before last, with calcium acetate (calcium carbonate in vinegar) an hour prior to it (in an attempt to mitigate negative effects from the D3) and it has me a little wired, which turns into wired and tired at times, but not as bad as I can be on most supplements. Depending on how I feel by tomorrow, I will either continue with this current D3 (not certain about the calcium), possibly try the lichen-derived D3 (though the potency, being considerably less, wouldn't allow me to use 10,000 IU doses cost-effectively), or jump in with the thyroid—but it's that learning curve you and everyone else speaks of that I will have to be ready to deal with. It sounds like thyroid is better for you than D3, but that maybe thyroid is more involved and creates more of a dependency. Or am I misinterpreting?

Oh, Ray didn’t tell me that. I find them to be more reliable. Regarding vitamin D3–do you have a deficiency and if not, could you have taken too much? 10,000 IUs is quite a large dose. I usually take 2,000 IUs in the spring and summer and 5,000 IUs in the fall and winter. Thyroid is definitely better for me than D3 but is more involved, yes. I know it’s said that vitamin D is more like a hormone or pro-hormone but for me, it’s nothing like taking actual hormones. The latter is far more potent, IME.

I do have a vitamin D deficiency, which is why I tend to be determined to make supplementing with it work. My thought was to load up at first and then taper down to a lower dose. Here is a quote from Peat about a dose that high that has given me the confidence to try it. (This is someone else asking him the question, not me.) :

Q: “Was tested low in vitamin D. Would supplementing 8,000 units a day be too much?”

“If you figure that being in a bathing suit in the sun for 20 or 30 minutes enough to just start turning pink, that can make 10,000 or 15,000 units. So 5,000 or 10,000 units is never gonna be harmful. I've never heard of 10,000 a day being harmful.” - Ray Peat

You're lucky you've had such success with thyroid. If this experiment with vitamin D3 doesn't work out, I'll probably go to thyroid next.

Both times I had a deficiency (6 and 10), the treatment was 50,000 IUs once a week until I was replete so I don’t consider 10,000 IUs harmful, I just questioned if it was too large a dose for you given your reaction to it and sensitivity to supplements.

Ok, so maybe there would be something to this initial loading phase, and then tapering off. Good to know that this approach worked for you. I'm not exactly certain why I'm so sensitive to supplements, but for the first time in many years I've been able to take D3 and K2, every other day, and not crash with debilitating side effects. Though, to be cautious, that could still happen. I have a feeling the calcium acetate, which I've never taken before, helped assimilate the D3 and K2. Just a guess. As we all know, it's a lot of trial and error — some more than others — before we get to a place of consistent success.

I’m sensitive to supplements too so I understand. I’m really glad to hear D3 and K2 aren’t causing debilitating side-effects. Fingers crossed you continue to tolerate them.

Thank you.

[Mossy]

@LucH said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@PeatPerspective said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

Yeah I would love a source. I just read the Peat Whisperer by Danny Roddy where he recommended 5k-7k calcium a day

K2 plays a key role in the activation of hormones that regulate calcium metabolism: osteocalcin, which is involved in the mineralization of bone matrix, and matrix Gla protein (MGP), which protects soft tissues against calcification.
The role of vitamin K2 is not limited to these functions alone. Here, it is much more than a co-factor because vitamin K2 is the substance that allows dependent proteins A and D to activate/come to life. While vitamins A and D act as signaling molecules, telling cells to produce certain proteins, vitamin K2 activates these proteins, giving them the physical ability to bind calcium.
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1935-optimiser-l-assimilation-du-calcium-en-supplement#29858
See 2nd &: Why taking K2 before and not after taking high dose vitamin D3 (5 000 UI).

There is no time frame recommended on that post for K2 to be taken before the D3. I was taking calcium acetate an hour before the D3. Do you have any thoughts on that before time frame?

[LucH]

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

There is no time frame recommended on that post for K2 to be taken before the D3. I was taking calcium acetate an hour before the D3. Do you have any thoughts on that before time frame?

well, I use logics:
1° you've understood why K2 has to be taken before A D3 K1 and K2 supplement, since K2 activates the dependent lipoproteins.
2. We need fats to assimilate lipoproteins. 35 g is required for vit K. Assimilation is proportional to the amount of fat.
So the time required is given by the digestive process. Roughly said 3 hours for fats but it could take more time if you get digestive problems, like a lack of enzymes or a lack of acidity to digest proteins.
3° Conclusion:

Most of the time, I take K2 at breakfast.

When there is no cheese or ham (e.g.) I add 6-8 macadamia nuts. Not enough but it's OK.
At midday, I take Vit D3 5.000 UI.
Note: Once a week I begin with retinol 10 000 UI at breakfast, and K2 at midday, and D3 at supper. I should have begun with K2.
When I use tocopherols (2x/wk) I take a softgel (400 UI mixed toco) with a snack (low level of fat needed) if there is a problem.
Note: to be perfect: I should take K2 MK4 twice a day (half-life of type MK4 is shorter than MK7).
Mind with the type MK7: very fragile (oxidation). 3 months delay if not well encapsulated and protected with e.g. rosmarinus

[Ecstatic_Hamster]

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Ecstatic_Hamster said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

The best supplementing regimen for magnesium I have found, and it's also the cheapest, is to mix magnesium carbonate with apple cider vinegar. I use about 1300 milligrams of magnesium carbonate with about 40 milliliters of apple cider vinegar, which largely neutralizes it but leaves it a bit acid. Then I mix it with water and drink it.

This has been extremely helpful because the magnesium seems to work very well in this state and I never get any bowel problems. It does stop constipation but seems to be a very easily metabolized form and the apple cider vinegar forming the acetate seems to be very good for my gut.

Excellent timing. I had just made a note to myself to try magnesium carbonate, per one of Peat's articles. I will try this as my magnesium source, along with D3, K2, and Calcium. I've just started calcium acetate, using calcium carbonate in vinegar. I thought it worth asking if you know of a reason why I couldn't just add the magnesium carbonate to the mix of calcium carbonate and vinegar?

Yes you should either use magnesium carbonate or calcium carbonate with ACV. But you only can use the proper amount to neutralize the ACV. In my experience, taking carbonates cause me to get heartburn, but taking it with ACV is perfect as no digestive issues at all. I lean to making it slightly acidic and not slightly alkaline.

[Mossy]

@LucH said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

There is no time frame recommended on that post for K2 to be taken before the D3. I was taking calcium acetate an hour before the D3. Do you have any thoughts on that before time frame?

well, I use logics:
1° you've understood why K2 has to be taken before A D3 K1 and K2 supplement, since K2 activates the dependent lipoproteins.
2. We need fats to assimilate lipoproteins. 35 g is required for vit K. Assimilation is proportional to the amount of fat.
So the time required is given by the digestive process. Roughly said 3 hours for fats but it could take more time if you get digestive problems, like a lack of enzymes or a lack of acidity to digest proteins.
3° Conclusion:

Most of the time, I take K2 at breakfast.

When there is no cheese or ham (e.g.) I add 6-8 macadamia nuts. Not enough but it's OK.
At midday, I take Vit D3 5.000 UI.
Note: Once a week I begin with retinol 10 000 UI at breakfast, and K2 at midday, and D3 at supper. I should have begun with K2.
When I use tocopherols (2x/wk) I take a softgel (400 UI mixed toco) with a snack (low level of fat needed) if there is a problem.
Note: to be perfect: I should take K2 MK4 twice a day (half-life of type MK4 is shorter than MK7).
Mind with the type MK7: very fragile (oxidation). 3 months delay if not well encapsulated and protected with e.g. rosmarinus

Thank you LucH, for all the detail. I do only take K2 MK4, MK7 gives me heart issues. Wow, that is quite a bit of fat — 35 grams. I do remember Haidut recommending at least 14g of fat with fat soluble vitamins.

I see you don't mention taking calcium. Is that the case, that you don't supplement calcium along with A, D, and K2?

[Mossy]

@Ecstatic_Hamster said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Ecstatic_Hamster said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

The best supplementing regimen for magnesium I have found, and it's also the cheapest, is to mix magnesium carbonate with apple cider vinegar. I use about 1300 milligrams of magnesium carbonate with about 40 milliliters of apple cider vinegar, which largely neutralizes it but leaves it a bit acid. Then I mix it with water and drink it.

This has been extremely helpful because the magnesium seems to work very well in this state and I never get any bowel problems. It does stop constipation but seems to be a very easily metabolized form and the apple cider vinegar forming the acetate seems to be very good for my gut.

Excellent timing. I had just made a note to myself to try magnesium carbonate, per one of Peat's articles. I will try this as my magnesium source, along with D3, K2, and Calcium. I've just started calcium acetate, using calcium carbonate in vinegar. I thought it worth asking if you know of a reason why I couldn't just add the magnesium carbonate to the mix of calcium carbonate and vinegar?

Yes you should either use magnesium carbonate or calcium carbonate with ACV. But you only can use the proper amount to neutralize the ACV. In my experience, taking carbonates cause me to get heartburn, but taking it with ACV is perfect as no digestive issues at all. I lean to making it slightly acidic and not slightly alkaline.

Great. I appreciate the added detail. I've put your recipe in my notes.

[Sippy]

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Mossy said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@Jennifer said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

@SpaceManJim said in Your top daily supplement? If you had to pick just 1:

I'm wondering what people value as their most important daily supplement (vitamin, mineral, hormone, etc). For your choice, why?

Thyroid is the supplement that had the greatest impact on my health, but the only supplement I continue to use is vitamin D3 (Premier Research Labs). When my thyroid function was poor, supplementing vitamin D kept me from becoming deficient, even when I was sunbathing regularly, and now I use it year round primarily as a sleep aid.

Hi Jennifer, I'd be curious to know what time of day you take vitamin D for sleep? I ask because I've read that taking it at bed time may actually negatively affect sleep. Considering it does make many tired when taking it, it would be convenient to take before bed.

Hi Mossy, I typically take it in the morning, but the times I’ve taken it before bed have been just as effective. What’s more likely to affect my sleep negatively are the excipients. I used to get the NOW brand of vitamin D drops until I discovered that the MCT oil it contains was irritating my intestines and disturbing my sleep. I switched to vitamin D in olive oil and haven’t had a problem since.

Ok, good to know that it works am or pm for you. I also have vitamin D in olive oil, which I also find better than the MCT, where the MCT gave me what I've described as a serotonin effect in the gut, but maybe your description that it's irritating the intestines is more accurate. Do you purposely stay away from the other supplements that many pair with vitamin D — Vitamin K2, Magnesium, Calcium, and Vitamin A? I'd be interested to know how you've concluded to just use vitamin D (if that indeed is the case). I've heard many share that these co-factors are needed to properly facilitate vitamin D, such as to direct calcium into the bones versus the blood. I ask out of genuine interest, not because I think I know better or am suggesting otherwise. I like the idea of taking less supplements when possible.

Oh, no worries. I didn’t think you were suggesting otherwise. And I think your description is just as accurate as mine. I simplify by saying irritating instead out of habit because it’s easier for the non-Peaters I speak with to understand as a negative when they believe “serotonin is the happy hormone.“ I supplement vitamin D and not the others because I don’t get enough sun during the winter to keep my level above 30, but my diet is naturally abundant in K2, magnesium, calcium and vitamin A so my levels of them are always within range. When it comes to directing calcium into bones, I’m more concerned with my thyroid and parathyroid function.

Thank you for the added detail. Good to know you're able to take just the vitamin D, considering you're getting the others in food. I may try just that.

You’re welcome. Yeah, I try to get nutrients from food whenever possible for a couple of reasons and with my current diet, I don’t get much vitamin D, however, I plan on experimenting with UV-exposed mushrooms. Ray talked about incandescent light for vitamin D so that’s another option.

UV exposed mushrooms sound interesting. I did a quick search and it seems most UV exposed mushrooms provide D2, with some providing D3 and D4 (shiitake). I wonder how much importance should be placed on prioritizing D3, which most supplements contain today? At the least, UV exposed mushrooms seem worth trying. Would you set them in the sun or shine a UV light on them indoors? After doing some math, it would seem best to simply use the UV exposed mushrooms in place of regular ones, within a given meal, not necessarily replace supplemental vitamin D with them. (At least for someone on a budget.) Cost wise and food volume wise, it would be hard to match the cost and convenience per dose of olive oil based vitamin D3.

It’s been years since I’ve researched it but from what I remember, studies showed that D2 isn’t as effective at raising serum vitamin D concentrations as D3, but my diet does contain some D3 from animal proteins and I planned on using shiitakes because I already consume them for selenium. However, I’m going to trial a lichen-based D3 supplement first. My main reason for wanting to get vitamin D from mushrooms instead of lanolin-derived D3 is I don’t know the farm(s) that supply the lanolin so I don’t know if the sheep are treated ethically, and I hadn’t found a lichen-derived D3 that wasn’t in MCT or sunflower oil, but I finally came across one in olive oil this past Saturday.

@Jennifer do you know if you can absorb any amount of D3 from pure lanolin? I have always felt the same way about taking d3 from unknown lanolin source/ farm. Recently, I found some really nice pure lanolin from a small organic farm and have been using it on my skin.https://www.etsy.com/listing/1463048886/lanolin-organic-pure?ref=cart&variation0=3493271645 I have considered eating it, but I've never heard of anyone doing that. Does anyone know how d3 is extracted from lanolin?

[Jennifer]

@Sippy, I’m not positive, but I would think lanolin has to go through a chemical process to become a hormone, similar to how the plant steroid diosgenin in wild yams goes through a chemical reaction to produce progesterone? I would think in the very least, lanolin would have to be exposed to UV light to contain D3. I’ll do some googling and see what I can find.