Fat Loss, Metabolism and Lipolysis
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@Lothric said in Fat Loss, Metabolism and Lipolysis:
My wife is attempting to lose weight she gained from pregnancy and I’m attempting to help her to it in the healthiest way possible. But one thing I don’t fully understand. To lose weight, even if you are working towards a pro metabolic lifestyle you are going to have to go through some lipolysis, right? For fat to be burned off it has to be used so in a way it’s unavoidable right? Or am I missing something.
Yes, if you are eating carbs and your body is fully absorbing and metabolizing carbs, in such a way that it is proceeding well, your blood sugar will not go up too high (think of it as a well draining river that drains easily even in a huge torrent of water in a flash flood, as the water level is kept from rising) such that little or no insulin is secreted.
With little insulin secreted, lipolysis is not inhibited as insulin is a lipolysis inhibitor. Lipolysis goes on as usual, and the fatty acids released from fat stores get metabolized by fatty acid oxidation. Understand this isn't a bad thing, as the body really needs to burn fats as it burns sugar, as long as sugar metabolism is the main metabolic pathway. In this way, fatty acids being used allow the body to conserve its sugar stores for organs such as the brain. At the same time,fat stores dwindle and this keeps one from becoming overweight or obese
When you inhibit lipolysis, the downside is you don't lose fat stores and this keeps you from losing weight.
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@yerrag So what is the best way to go about weight loss in a pro metabolic way? Continue to eat high carbs, low fat, medium protein while keeping everything below maintenance calories?
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I want to add to my previous answer first. I mentioned insulin inhibits lipolysis, but I failed to mention that insulin also converts high blood sugar to fats thru the liver. So keeping insulin as low as possible (yes, as insulin is not needed as much as potassium is to make tissues absorb sugar on the way to sugar being metabolized) keeps one from gaining weight (when normal) or allows one to lose weight (when overweight).
To your question, it is logical to assume an overweight person to be so because of low metabolism rather than from being a glutton. But that is not always so evident, as LB (low metabolism) people tend to be hypoglycemic (except when they are type A diabetics and cannot produce insulin) and when hypoglycemic, one has to eat more often as hunger (caused by hypoglycemia) makes them eat more often.
First of all. one has to acknowledge sugar metabolism as good, and not fall to the trap set by so-called experts saying low-carb is the way to better health, either thru ketogenic or carnivore nutritional lifestyles. Once this is accepted, it makes it easier to proceed with a program based on Ray Peat's principles, and to stay focused and not backside as doubt and hesitance will set you back, and have one going in circles from the push and pull of competing voices and noise from doctors, family and friends, all well-meaning but just plain wrong.
If that mindset is not established, it is useless to proceed further. I will just end up writing a lot for free, but wasting my time because free stuff is more easily thrown away than something paid for at a high price even when just plain wrong.
But it isn't my goal to convince you sugar metabolism is superior and is the only way for us humans. But if you aren't convinced, I will have to try in a few sentences or paragraphs before I answer your question.
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High carb, low fat, high activity (a lot of LISS + resistance training) is probably going to be the “healthiest” fat loss approach without ending highly stress-hormone adapted (something Georgie talks about in his latest “Strong Sistas” podcast ep)
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Stress hormones and lipolysis will increase during weight loss but we don’t have to go over board with it.
High carb low fat was actually shown to retain more muscle during weight loss compared to high fat low carb
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@Lothric said in Fat Loss, Metabolism and Lipolysis:
For fat to be burned off it has to be used so in a way it’s unavoidable right? Or am I missing something.
Hi,
My point of view:
First to remind: It’s easier to lose weight than not to regain it. Stabilization will be needed with staples.- 1st challenge: Avoid to stress if you want to lose fat from adipocytes. Otherwise, adrenalin and cortisol afterwards will prevent you from burning fat.
No lipolysis allowed if stress.
2 hours are required to recover a normal state of carburation.
Help needed with breath exercise (sophrology).
Some magnesium bisglycinate could help to make it easier to recover (300 mg x2 or 3) (to take after a “crisis”; useless if you want to anticipate a difficult situation.-
Enough potassium is required to help glycolysis.
RP said insulin is only 8 % of the solution.
- Never drink black coffee without sugar nor smoking before eating carbs, at sunrise.
Since high insulin lowers blood sugar as it disposes of amino acids, eating a large amount of protein without carbohydrate can cause a sharp decrease in blood sugar.
https://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/11/26/ray-peat-phd-on-low-blood-sugar-stress-reaction/ - be conscious your wife is not going to lose weight where she wants it. It could be the belly, buttocks or breasts.
Some specific exercises could help to strengthen the abdominal muscles. - Don’t try to lose more than 1.5 kg – 2 kg (4 pounds) per week.
- Never go under 80 % of the required macronutrients, otherwise the brain will set the balance back. Defensive process.
- I would take 1.2 gr meat / kg weight when trying to lose weight. Not necessary to take 2 gr. Never go under 0.8 gr.
- 25 gr protein is good. 35 gr maxi per meal (if no enzymes are taken). Optimizing process.
Note: there are +/ 20-24 gr protein in meat. - We weigh oneself once a week, not every day.
A green soup could help if necessary to saturate.
I would not go under 20 % lipids. Not a good idea.
Hope it could help.
Note: I’ve been coaching people for more than 10 years.
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@LucH said in Fat Loss, Metabolism and Lipolysis:
@Lothric said in Fat Loss, Metabolism and Lipolysis:
For fat to be burned off it has to be used so in a way it’s unavoidable right? Or am I missing something.
Hi,
My point of view:
First to remind: It’s easier to lose weight than not to regain it. Stabilization will be needed with staples.- 1st challenge: Avoid to stress if you want to lose fat from adipocytes. Otherwise, adrenalin and cortisol afterwards will prevent you from burning fat.
No lipolysis allowed if stress.
2 hours are required to recover a normal state of carburation.
Help needed with breath exercise (sophrology).
Some magnesium bisglycinate could help to make it easier to recover (300 mg x2 or 3) (to take after a “crisis”; useless if you want to anticipate a difficult situation.-
Enough potassium is enquired to help glycolysis.
RP said insulin is only 8 % of the solution.
- Never drink black coffee without sugar nor smoking before eating carbs, at sunrise.
Since high insulin lowers blood sugar as it disposes of amino acids, eating a large amount of protein without carbohydrate can cause a sharp decrease in blood sugar.
https://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/11/26/ray-peat-phd-on-low-blood-sugar-stress-reaction/ - be conscious your wife is not going to lose weight where she wants it. It could be the belly, buttocks or breasts.
Some specific exercises could help to strengthen the abdominal muscles. - Don’t try to lose more than 1.5 kg – 2 kg (4 pounds) per week.
- Never go under 80 % of the required macronutrients, otherwise the brain will set the balance back. Defensive process.
- I would take 1.2 gr meat / kg weight when trying to lose weight. Not necessary to take 2 gr. Never go under 0.8 gr.
- 25 gr protein is good. 35 gr maxi per meal (if no enzymes are taken). Optimizing process.
Note: there are +/ 20-24 gr protein in meat. - We weigh oneself once a week, not every day.
A green soup could help if necessary to saturate.
I would not go under 20 % lipids. Not a good idea.
Hope it could help.
Note: I’ve been coaching people for more than 10 yrs.
You will get very confusing and contrasting answers on how to go about weight loss.
One will say avoid lipolysis and another, I, will say allow it. RPF has long advocated avoiding lipolysis via using niacinamide, but this is why that advice doesn't work. If you Avoid lipolysis how will you get rid of stored body fat? Which is why it is better to let lipolysis happen by minimizing insulin production. as insulin inhibits lipolysis. Taking niacinamide for the purpose of inhibiting lipolysis is wrong-headed. Haidut advocates this, but haidut has never lost weight. And RPF guys never wonder why that is. I believe use of niscinamide to lose weight is contradictory to the idea of losing weight.
I give you my reasons and the logic behind it. It doesn't matter how long someone has been coaching. Results matter. How many years masons build means nothing if what they build keeps leaving cracks behind in the plaster. Yet such masons like to brag about their experience.
Which is why I would not want to proceed in advising you, as most people who ask will make the wrong decision, as voices around create a lot of noise and make finding the right approach difficult.
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@yerrag said in Fat Loss, Metabolism and Lipolysis:
If you Avoid lipolysis how will you get rid of stored body fat? Which is why it is better to let lipolysis happen by minimizing insulin production. as insulin inhibits lipolysis. Taking niacinamide for the purpose of inhibiting lipolysis is wrong-headed.
Well seen.
I confirm that when I took high dose B3 (niacinamide), I was unable to lose weight. It prevents me from losing fat, thus lypolysis.
As Yerrag said, obviously, to lose weight, you need to lose fat from adipocytes. Between 2 meals, there must be a deficit or better a higher carburation. In this way, when walking 20’ after a night meal, it’s fine to help avoiding high level of blood carbs.
The body needs time to be accustomed (brain) to burn fat for fuel.Two sides of a problem with B3:
En commençant avec 50 mg / jour de B3, l‘organisme s’habitue.
La niacine provoque un «rebond lipolyse ». Cette vitamine essaie d'abord d'empêcher la lipolyse et puis après une à deux heures, il y a un contre-effet qui amène la libération massive de triglycérides des adipocytes et en même temps la sortie de substances chimiques toxiques (dans le processus de détoxication).
Ce processus a été décrit par L.A. Carlsen de Suède. -
Glad you noticed weight gain when megadosing B3. Thst makes the two of us. @mostlylurking have you noticed as well?
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@yerrag said in Fat Loss, Metabolism and Lipolysis:
Glad you noticed weight gain when megadosing B3. Thst makes the two of us. @mostlylurking have you noticed as well?
Well, I don't think I've ever high dosed B3. I take 100mgs of niacinamide, 4Xday which equals to 400mgs/day. That's not high dosing is it?
I suspect that my own weight gain is from learning how to make fabulous apple pie combined with sitting on my fat behind in front of this computer too much.
I'd like to add that I did lose 35 pounds in around 4 months simply by changing how I take my niacinamide. I used to take 200mgs twice a day which equaled 400mgs/day. Then I changed to taking 100mgs of it 4 times a day and the weight came off. I guess something just started working better from taking it more frequently. This weight loss happened prior to perfecting my pastry....
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@mostlylurking
Well, you didn't go overboard with the B3. I did.
I was taking 2 x500 mg for 1- 2 months. But I was taking 2k mg of B1 30mg of niacin, 120mg of B2, and 60mg of B6 for a month.
I noticed my belly grow, and I put on around 10 lbs, mostly with astrocytes. I thought it was the B2.
Then my cat bit me by the ankle bone, and since then I have been mostly bedridden because I couldn't walk with the pain that accompanied the slow healing of a wound that because of the thin dermal layer near bones (often associated with bed sores) that are slow to heal. I'm on week 6 and likely it would be 7 before all the wound heals. In you ask,
I'm not diabetic.But throughout a month of this ordeal, I was eating my usual regular carb meals 3x a day (though it would also be called lo carb by less knowledgeable folks) but I would lose weight instead of gain despite the lack of movement that constitutes external metabolism.
I lost back all the weight and girth I had gained. And it was because I had backed off my 1000mg daily supplementation of niacinamide.
Ever since the RPF days, I had wondered about the sanity of using niacinamide to avoid lipolysis in order to lose weight or to improve sugar metabolism and to increase metabolism, but I never voiced it out.
No one ever did as well. Now, I think a case can start to be built up against too much B3 supplementation if the goal is to lose weight as one improves his sugar metabolism.
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@yerrag said in Fat Loss, Metabolism and Lipolysis:
@mostlylurking
Well, you didn't go overboard with the B3. I did.
Ah hah!!
I was taking 2 x500 mg for 1- 2 months. But I was taking 2k mg of B1 30mg of niacin, 120mg of B2, and 60mg of B6 for a month.
I noticed my belly grow, and I put on around 10 lbs, mostly with astrocytes. I thought it was the B2.
Can I blame my belly on the B2? I take around 400mgs/day same as my niacinamide.
Then my cat bit me by the ankle bone, and since then I have been mostly bedridden because I couldn't walk with the pain that accompanied the slow healing of a wound that because of the thin dermal layer near bones (often associated with bed sores) that are slow to heal. I'm on week 6 and likely it would be 7 before all the wound heals. In you ask,
I'm not diabetic.Have you ever tried using chlorine dioxide? It might help you heal faster. Here's a video. Here's a how to video.
But throughout a month of this ordeal, I was eating my usual regular carb meals 3x a day (though it would also be called lo carb by less knowledgeable folks) but I would lose weight instead of gain despite the lack of movement that constitutes external metabolism.
I lost back all the weight and girth I had gained. And it was because I had backed off my 1000mg daily supplementation of niacinamide.
Interesting concept.... You might be onto something....
Ever since the RPF days, I had wondered about the sanity of using niacinamide to avoid lipolysis in order to lose weight or to improve sugar metabolism and to increase metabolism, but I never voiced it out.
No one ever did as well. Now, I think a case can start to be built up against too much B3 supplementation if the goal is to lose weight as one improves his sugar metabolism.
You just might be right!
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@mostlylurking
Serendipity helps a lot!
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@LucH this is awesome!
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@mostlylurking said in Fat Loss, Metabolism and Lipolysis:
Have you ever tried using chlorine dioxide? It might help you heal faster. Here's a video. Here's a how to video.
It likely will work. I used a 1% mixture of Clorox in an isotonic salt solution aka Dakin's solution, made by Dr. Dakin about 100 yrs. ago. The surgeon doctor I consulted recommended it.
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@yerrag said in Fat Loss, Metabolism and Lipolysis:
@mostlylurking said in Fat Loss, Metabolism and Lipolysis:
Have you ever tried using chlorine dioxide? It might help you heal faster. Here's a video. Here's a how to video.
It likely will work. I used a 1% mixture of Clorox in an isotonic salt solution aka Dakin's solution, made by Dr. Dakin about 100 yrs. ago. The surgeon doctor I consulted recommended it.
It's not the same thing. Watch the two videos I posted earlier. The second one is how to make it.
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@mostlylurking I know it's not the same thing.
I've made chlorine dioxide countless times already. But Dakin's works, and it's a done deal. Next time, chlorine dioxide it shall be.
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@yerrag said in Fat Loss, Metabolism and Lipolysis:
@mostlylurking I know it's not the same thing.
I've made chlorine dioxide countless times already. But Dakin's works, and it's a done deal. Next time, chlorine dioxide it shall be.
Okey dokey. the second video shows how to make a consistent concentrated product that you dilute just before use. I've used it for several years. I keep the concentrated mix in the refrigerator for months and work out of it.
