My Experiments With Hormones
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Hey Everyone,
I'm a 33 year old married man, I've got 4 kids and I'm glad to find this forum. I wanted to start this thread to log my experiences with various hormones and supplements.
Not everything in my life follows Ray Peat advised methods, but I find the Ray Peat community to be very open and honest which is why I prefer to post here.
What are my goals?
My goals are simple, I want to:
- Feel more energetic
- Look better
- Better performance in sex
I work in an extremely stressful environment, I am a business executive over a midsize company doing around 200 million a year in revenue. This combined with the stress of my kids has slowly caused me to gain weight, get out of shape, and feel worse over time.
I first want to talk about my most recent experiment which was with sublingual testosterone. I found some on the black market and the effects were just like the studies show. Within 15 minutes I had a burst of energy, at around the hour mark I felt amazing, then it would slowly come down for the next hour. I took a lot and did face suppression, my balls shrunk a bit and my ejaculate was a lot more watery than usual.
I had to stop taking it though as the carrier used I am apparently allergic to. Every time I took it my eyes would get dryer and my eczema would suddenly come back. As such I had to discontinue use after a couple of weeks. Recovery was very easy so I doubt I was all that suppressed.
I am now considering straight oral testosterone. Topical is out because of my kids and shots will be last resort, last time I tested I was not low enough to qualify for TRT.
Previous Ideal Lab Hormones I've used
I have used:
Pansterone - Originally I used dermacrine before switching over. Dermacrine has huge doses and I ended up gaining a ton of water weight. My wife goes nuts for the smell of DHEA/Pregenenolone for some reason. I find using this my energy and drive goes way up but my appetite becomes unmanageable. Every time I start taking it my weight goes up because I can't control my eating. Maybe if I had more time to move around as well. I've also found it helps me last a lot longer in bed. This is important as obviously sex is a big part of my marriage and keeping my wife happy.
DHT 11-keto I like it, good drive, deep voice, doesn't make me tired. When I combined it with the sublingual testosterone it was a whole other level. My libido was incredible. I've found no suppression with this, no energy gain though.
Androsterone The smell does have a pheromone effect and I've found it beneficial in a business sense. I find that it can make me feel lethargic and light headed, I often want to nap suddenly. It also kills any anxiety, but I generally have no anxiety.
Vitamin K2 Started this recently, doubt it will make a crazy difference but I did find a guy on reddit who sent me his bloodwork showing great results.
I recently gave up nicotine gum, I worry too much about prolactin from it.
What's next then in things I'll try?
I want to try t3, I started balding around kid 2 likely from stress and my temperatures are low, not super low but low.
I also want to try oral micronized testosterone. I'm struggling to buy any and figure out how to keep my kids from getting into it. Anyone with kids knows that unless you really go out of your way to keep them out they will find a way. I have a home office I''d plan to use.
So that's it. Excited to learn from people here. I want to get back into barbell lifting at home and found when I used testosterone my desire to workout went through the roof, here's hoping we can find a way to do that without killing my eyesight.
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@RFC32
Try test powder dissolved in vitamin E
You can take it orally like Prog-E -
@ATP I’m planning on it, have you tried it?
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@RFC32 Could you please elaborate more on the prolactin from nicotine gum as I have been experimenting with it aswell
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@Hollowed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2832319/
Check out this study, there’s a few more.
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@RFC32 I'm still in the experimental phase myself but found amazing results with cyproheptadine for eliminating serotonin. Be careful with the dosage because you'll probably feel like a walking corpse for the first few times you use it, but the rebound effect and sleep aid effects are amazing. If you don't mind me asking what hormone would you say had the biggest effect and you're planning on taking indefinitely? I've been eyeing Pansterone for a little bit now as well.
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@PrinceTrebata good question. 11 keto dht is decent with testosterone but on its own was not super reliable for me.
Androsterone I keep just for pheromones. If my wife is ovulating it sends her into overdrive and before meeting with my board of investors I always use it.
Pansterone taken orally sure makes my brain fog go away but I get so hungry I gain a lot of weight with it so I rarely use it.
I’d say testosterone and then androsterone are my favorites.
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@RFC32 I've heard a lot of people have that response with Androsterone, defintelvly something I want to try in the future. Would you continue Pansterone if it wasen't for the weight gaining effects? Was the androgen boost in anyway comparable to test or Androsterone?
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I love Pansterone, if I didn’t gain weight like crazy on it I’d never stop using it.
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@RFC32 what dosage of androsterone do you normally use?
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@milo7 around 4mg, two on wrists two sublingual.
I’ve also used the full dose from icon labs which is much higher but the amount absorbed is lower so I don’t know how it compares. That stuff turns me into walking cologne though.
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@RFC32 do you get low estrogen symptoms from the andro? like cracky joints or bad libido/ED?
what time do you apply it? -
@mavuue no, libido does go down but my libido is usually ridiculously high, it’s a bit of a benefit.
No cracked joints, but it makes me super sleepy so I take it at night often sublingually, I can still smell it the next day and my wife can tell when I’ve taken it.
Update: took 6mg sublingual again today and once again great energy, sex drive, happy. But allergic responses again. I’ve found that Farnese uses this chemical in some of its smart systems too and people have commented it makes them react immediately.
I ordered alpha gels test because I just really want a way to keep running this, but I’m also considering getting vitamin e and raw test then making sublingual.
Sublingual definitely works for me, it’s easy to take too and the study that uses it shows an increase in dht which is probably why my drive goes up so much on it. Self control goes way up too and libido is good.
I did take 30 mg the other day, 6 mg 5 times a day and by the end I was suppressed based on semen consistency.
I want to try it with vitamin e to see if it extends half life.
DMSO test from alpha gels will be interesting. I avoided it before because my wife is super sensitive to smells. Seems like he adds in essential oils to help with that. I’ve also read adding a tiny bit of honey has been shown to get rid of the bad dmso breath.
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Alright.
So I now have alpha gels which is just vitamin e, dmso, and micronized Testosterone.
Applying to my scrotum I get:
- Increase in energy
- Increase in aggression
- Increase in confidence
- Increase in strength
Application with DMSO is super messy, has to be rubbed in and I worry a lot about transference. There are many claims of 99% permeability with DMSO but it’s hard to say if that’s true, and what about the test on my hands from application.
Also I did find that sublingual felt better, more energy, it had to be dosed multiple times a day but it was extremely reliable, I also found libido a bit higher.
I need to find a way to make homemade sublingual test as the stuff I got sets off my allergies immediately.
Should vitamin e and test straight together work?
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@RFC32 said in My Experiments With Hormones:
Alright.
So I now have alpha gels which is just vitamin e, dmso, and micronized Testosterone.
Where did you buy this from?
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@RFC32 Did transdermal application anywhere other than scrotal have similer effects?
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How was the alphagels experience compared to other ways of test application you have tried?
Did alphagels feel stronger or last longer than your other experiments?
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@revenant said in My Experiments With Hormones:
@RFC32 said in My Experiments With Hormones:
Alright.
So I now have alpha gels which is just vitamin e, dmso, and micronized Testosterone.
Where did you buy this from?
There's an email you can order from, not sure if I'm allowed to share it here. If so I'll update it in here, can anyone tell me what's allowed and not? They sell DHT and Test in DMSO with vitamin E, bit pricey.
@PrinceTrebata said in My Experiments With Hormones:
@RFC32 Did transdermal application anywhere other than scrotal have similer effects?
I also tested naval and it felt really good, energy, drive, less anxious or fight feeling probably due to less DHT.
@metabolicmilk said in My Experiments With Hormones:
How was the alphagels experience compared to other ways of test application you have tried?
Did alphagels feel stronger or last longer than your other experiments?
It definitely lasts way longer, the sublingual stuff only lasts about two hours and it's noticeable.
I will say sublingual though is really amazing, honestly I think I prefer it. You just have to dose more.
The problem is the carrier used is toxic for me, my eyes become blurry, my skin breaks out and I look awful very quickly. I'm debating either doing test in Vitamin E suspension for sublingual or making pasties, that's a method I found trans MTF people use putting estrogen basically into gum you stick to your gums, I think I could do the same with testosterone.
DMSO test is cool though, but topical transference still has me freaked out.
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@metabolicmilk
I put Test into DMSO with good results, but it seems to have kicked off a terrible bout of allergies in me. Also, my eye area feels terrible and I look tired all the time.
It definitely delivers the T, though, very palpable.
I remember Ray said DMSO can cause release of NO and histamine. -
I wonder if on the occasions you felt groggy on a hormone, it would help to have been consuming more calories — taking it, is after all mimicking the effect of a high metabolic rate while bypassing the compromised metabolism.
Also, getting temps and pulse up is the holy grail of weight loss. I’d look more into Peat’s work on it if you haven’t. You’re not afraid of exogenous hormones so thyroid would be right up your alley.
Danny Roddy shared with me his experience with clients and research from Broda Barnes, that the body can’t burn fat however you try, without adequate temps.
