P4 and DHEA in a 8:1 Ratio
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@jamezb46 If haidut replies please post his response here, im very interested about the 8:1 P4:DHEA.
I'd also like to know who these bodybuilders are and what they look like, since haidut's claims are quite far fetched i would say. Like im not saying he is lying but progesterone and DHEA replacing bodybuilder cycles is difficult to believe. -
He did reply (or at least someone at Idealabs)
I was assured that the presence of DHEA should mitigate and/or eliminate the libido decrease and penis numbness that some males report with P4 only.
As far as those two bodybuilders @haidut mentioned, they were injecting 100mg P4 and 10mg DHEA per day, which they claimed was superior to 50mg Test E per day and probably equivalent to 75 mg+ Test E per day.
They did not make any claims about oral administration with their product (dissolved in tocopherols) being comparable to the injections that the bodybuilders were doing, but I think we can read between the lines a bit and realize they do not want a lawsuit.
I'm currently in the process of going through the 20 page Cortinon thread on the RP forum. This could be very promising.
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@jamezb46
Ok, with injectable P4 and DHEA this makes way more sense. The combination bieng stronger that 350 Test and potentially equivalent to 500+ is insane actually, someone needs to try this and report back! But i wonder if it only works if you have built lots of muscle with androgens first or it can be just as anabolic. -
Well, remember for @haidut anabolic is really anti-catabolic.
So, P4 he considers to be anabolic because of its anti-cortisol properties.
I want to belive this, but I find it to be doubtful. If it is really correct that AAS work primiarily through anatagonism of GR, then why don't RU486 or Emodin or beta-lapochone or other cortisol blockers make people jacked? Maybe it is the "synergy" between anagonism of GR and agonism of AR that is the real key.
That is a line of thinking developed in some of Haidut's other threads on RP forum about, for example, combining progesterone and oxandrololne and the general outline of why the "dutchess coctail" is effective.
Yes I agree that this needs to be tried and replicated. From about an hour of looking over the Cortinon thread of RP forum, many users reported some issues with comparitvely quite low doses of Cortinon, in the range of 2-4 drops, which is only 6-12mg P4, which pails in comparison to the 120 mg countenanced above.
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@jamezb46 oxandralone shuts you down at any dose tho right?
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Not necessarily. At doses of about 10mg/day there was almost no shutdown.
Some other steroids such as tbol and dbol also have minimal shutdown at low doses. You could probably get away with running them at around 20 mg/day for 6 weeks and not have any shutdown. 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Then repeat.
That's roughly what the east german athletes did during the state planned doping.
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I never understood why pregnenolone doesn't substitute for progesterone since lots of it converts to progesterone.
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@jamezb46 I need to get lean i will do this.
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Ray thought that alot of the pregnenalone available as supplements was damaged in the production process. Apparently if you heat the P5 too high, estrogenic substances are generated. Ray thought that some of those were present in virutally all products available OTC.
That's why he likes the progesterone better.
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@jamezb46 said in P4 and DHEA in a 8:1 Ratio:
Ray thought that alot of the pregnenalone available as supplements was damaged in the production process. Apparently if you heat the P5 too high, estrogenic substances are generated. Ray thought that some of those were present in virutally all products available OTC.
That's why he likes the progesterone better.
That make sense. Lots of pharma companies make progesterone.
Amazon has one usp progesterone powder but I don't see any usp pregnenolone.
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Does anyone know if the ratio is the same using pregnenolone?
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@Insomniac No it's 1:1
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@jamezb46 Thanks. I wouldn't have guessed right.