Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”
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I've updated tie formula and added sodium butyrate. The amount needed is surprisingly small, and I've already taken a couple times more than needed. This is based on one in vitro study so very speculative, but I've read something about it increasing osmotic stress if you exceed 10mM, not sure if that's true/relevant.
New formula:
D-Glucose: 1%
Apple Peel Polyphenols: 1%
NMN: 1%
Sodium Butyrate: 0.075%
Ethanol: 35%
Water: 65% -
@Mauritio
How can one tell if something is D or L glucose?
The makers of this have no clue:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B097CQ3F71?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1 -
You guys are cookin with gas now, I can't understand what the hell you're talking about at this point. Keep it up.
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@Gaston I was thinking, thank god I don't have hair loss, so I don't need to dwelve deep into this research. These guys are onto another level lol, much respect.
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@AinmBeo said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
Does the "Ethanol" listed here imply pure alcohol (no water in the mix)?
Yes.
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@CrumblingCookie said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
This indicated that, consistent with Flores et al., anaerobic glycolysis is required for HFSC activation, but it does not influence HFSC to ORS lineage progression."
That's good to know.
@CrumblingCookie said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
Nice follow up on this! I am unsure, however, whether these effects are mediated through HDACi or whether they are separate effects on Akt activation->GSK3beta inhibition->Wnt activation. It may be a distinct mechanism?
I'm not sure.im not deep into the HDAC literature. I just recall from one of the studies I read today that they said it was am epigenetic mechanism stabilizing the pro-hair genes .
@CrumblingCookie said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
so, topical lactate? If the topical solution remains at pH <5 we may even use benzoic acid or benzoate at 0.5-0.9% as a preservative instead of the high 35% ethanol. Maybe combined with an equimolar amount of glycine to allow for its enzymatic conversion to hippuric acid once applied and absorbed.
Lol I've been peating too long to voluntarily apply lactic acid to my scalp, I feel safer with giving my scalp the raw material(s) ,mainly dextrose, and then let it figure it out.
Why do you think it's less than 5 ? I haven't calculated it but I guess it should be higher . Especially once adding potassium bicarbonate. Why benzoic acid?
The ethanol is not just there as a preservative but also as a solvent and absorption enhancer . The apple polyphenols are poorly water soluble IIRC but better soluble in ethanol for example. So benzoic acid would have to be able to do these things as well. -
@Gaston said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
You guys are cookin with gas now, I can't understand what the hell you're talking about at this point. Keep it up.
@alfredoolivas said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
I was thinking, thank god I don't have hair loss, so I don't need to dwelve deep into this research. These guys are onto another level lol, much respect.
Lol thanks guys.
Great teamwork on this thread. This could help many, many people if it works out. -
Here's a guy on reddit who claims to have cured his balding by using anti fungal spray on his head. Even included some decent pictures.
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@Mauritio said:
Why do you think it's less than 5 ? I haven't calculated it but I guess it should be higher . Especially once adding potassium bicarbonate. Why benzoic acid?
It's just a thought for avoiding the degree of scalp skin disinfection from the ethanol or its alternative of 20-30% propylene glycol. Of which I cannot say how much significance that bears wrt to the skin microbiome.
What's the minimum ethanol concentration for enhancement of absorption?- The efficacy of benzoic acid and benzoate as a preservative is dependent on the pH, i.e. a pH <5 would be a requirement for the use of BzOH.
At low pH BzOH's antibacterial action works through inhibition phosphofructokinase (PFK) and therefore prevention of (an)aerobic fermentation of glucose. PFK being touted the rate limiting enzyme for glycolysis of course urges to keep its topical concentration sensible so that the pH balances out and there'll be no inhibition of glycolysis in the cytoplasm of skin/HF/DP cells.
Commonly BzOH is <1% (up to 5%) for preservation of cosmetics (limited to 0.5% in the EU and 0.2% in Japan. - It's easy to confuse with benzyl alcohol, though, which is usually termed BA and used at <1% for preservation of cosmetics because of it being a skin irritant. It needs to be at least 0.9% however as the MIC. BA oxidizes to BzOH.
- I've thought of boric acid as a preservative, too, but I can't get my hands on that one.
@Mauritio said:
I just recall from one of the studies I read today that they said it was am epigenetic mechanism stabilizing the pro-hair genes .
The linked study showing activation of BMP genes by trichostatin A is likely by HDACi. As yet I know nothing about those bone morphogenetic proteins.
The authors wrote:-
BMPs are important in orchestrating tissue architecture by inducing a group of pivotal morphogenetic signals.
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In stem cells, the presence of BMPs in culture has been shown to be crucial for the maintenance of their primitive states
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BMP signaling in DP cells is required for the maintenance of their hair follicle-inductive properties. In the absence of BMP signals, DPs lose their signature characteristics in vitro and fail to generate hair follicles when engrafted with epithelial stem cells in vivo
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In our previous study, we found that BMP2, BMP 4 or BMP6, with BMP4 in particular, could increase the AP [alkaline phosphatase] activity of culture expanded SKPs [multipotent skin-derived precursor cells], and supplementation of BMP4 to the culture increased the hair induction ability of SKPs
Stem cell senescene is being alleviated and their autocrine functions [regulation of a cell's own behaviour by itself] restored by H3K14Ac and H3K19Ac. This definetly targets the HFSC and DP.
In dermatological practice they really should be checking up such markers in hair biopsies instead of the useless "Ah well yes sir/m'lady, the results of laboratory analysis of your painfully plucked hairs are in: They are telogen and falling out and we advice you take this agent of chemical castration, brain neurotransmitter and collagen degeneration" - "Gee, thank you, doc. I better heed this because, boy, I really wouldn't know what to do without your great sophistication!"
@Mauritio said:
Lol I've been peating too long to voluntarily apply lactic acid to my scalp, I feel safer with giving my scalp the raw material(s) ,mainly dextrose, and then let it figure it out.
That guy linked by @Hearthfire who used potassium bicarbonate (antimycotic + for the ion channels instead of minoxidil) also applied diluted acetic acid (white wine vinegar) before and after to enhance scalp perfusion and to (maybe/wishfully) dissolve skin calcium deposits.
Might as well choose lactic acid for that instead? Its use (5%) against acne, rosacea, for stimulating skin collagen and ceramide synthesis and for retaining skin moisture seems very safe and established.
If it were to only benefit the scalp skin even that would be beneficial for the perfusion and nutrient gradient behind the skin barrier. If the skin cells are more stable they wouldn't need to quarrel with HF, DP and stem cells about who get's the glucose and glutamine. I'd consciously deem it wise if skin cells always were to be prioritized over hair. - The efficacy of benzoic acid and benzoate as a preservative is dependent on the pH, i.e. a pH <5 would be a requirement for the use of BzOH.
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That's very interesting. More and more I lean towards hair loss being an occult fungal, parasitic, and possibly bacterial infection in the scalp, Probably enabled by an upstream deficiency. Something happens in the health balance that allows our body to be weakened allowing the infestation. Or perhaps it's just a product of the environment we live in. Terrain theory. When people see raised DHT levels in scalp, they blame baldness on the DHT, but that DHT overload is probably one of your body's measures to repair, trying to regrow the hair that's being destroyed by the fungus/parasites/bacteria. It's like a negative feedback loop that becomes worse and worse over time. DHT grows hair everywhere else on the body. I'm not saying high DHT does not add to the negative effect, but it not being the main factor could be why hair loss is such a mystery to this day, because other more serious underlying factors are doing more damage.
Just as another example of how this could go un-noticed by big medicine; rosacea, Apparently they don't know the cause, but doing a bit of research reading anecdotes online, it seems this might also be caused by demodex mites in most cases. People have cured it by applying ivermectin and tea tree oil. Rosaeca patients tend to have a higher amount of demodex mites, yet mainstream medicine doesn't link the two.
If the cause of a condition as prolific as rosacea is unknown to doctors/skincare professionals, and it turns out to actually be demodex mites, I think the odds of many cases (maybe a majority) of balding in men could be caused by occult fungal/parasitic/bacterial infection. Obviously there's other causes but I'm mainly focused on those caused by (allegedly) DHT.
@CrumblingCookie said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
That guy linked by @Hearthfire who used potassium bicarbonate (antimycotic + for the ion channels instead of minoxidil) also applied diluted acetic acid (white wine vinegar) before and after to enhance scalp perfusion and to (maybe/wishfully) dissolve skin calcium deposits.
Might as well choose lactic acid for that instead? Its use (5%) against acne, rosacea, for stimulating skin collagen and ceramide synthesis and for retaining skin moisture seems very safe and established.
If it were to only benefit the scalp skin even that would be beneficial for the perfusion and nutrient gradient behind the skin barrier. If the skin cells are more stable they wouldn't need to quarrel with HF, DP and stem cells about who get's the glucose and glutamine. I'd consciously deem it wise if skin cells always were to be prioritized over hair.Not really wishfully. Totally plausible, given enough applications over time. Vinegar will dissolve an eggshell in 10 hours. It's also anti-fungal. So you're doubling up on the anti-fungal action as well.
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Any reason to not use NAD+ in a formulation like this? Aren't you using NMN because it's a NAD+ precursor? NAD+ is readily available on Amazon for pretty cheap.
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@Hearthfire Not answering for Mauritio, but NAD+ has a molecular mass of 663g/mol, therefore due to the Dalton Rule, it is too big of a molecule too pass through the skin. NMN has a moleculer weight in the 300s, so it can enter and pass the skin.
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@Mauritio
I see that the recipe calls for Ethanol.
May we safely assume that "Denatured alcohol" (which appears to be ethanol with additives) is not suitable for this recipe? -
@CrumblingCookie said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
It's just a thought for avoiding the degree of scalp skin disinfection from the ethanol or its alternative of 20-30% propylene glycol. Of which I cannot say how much significance that bears wrt to the skin microbiome.
What's the minimum ethanol concentration for enhancement of absorption?I don't remember the minimal concentration but I remember it should have been even a bit higher than it is now, especially since removing propylene glycol and especially for the apple polyphenols /procyanidins.
I'm not sure the scalp disinfection is a negative thing.
The fungal hypothesis seems more and more reasonable to me and ethanol does have anti fungal effects.This is where the issue with benzoic acid comes in, fungi thrive in low pH environments and if benzoic acids needs that as well, that might not work well.
In fact, potassium bicarbonate is really good at increasing the pH, which is part of its anti fungal effect. So Ill probably be adding this soon . Only topically though, since I don't want to neutralize stomach acid.@CrumblingCookie said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
Ah well yes sir/m'lady, the results of laboratory analysis of your painfully plucked hairs are in: They are telogen and falling out and we advice you take this agent of chemical castration, brain neurotransmitter and collagen degeneration" - "Gee, thank you, doc. I better heed this because, boy, I really wouldn't know what to do without your great sophistication!"
Lol
@CrumblingCookie said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
Might as well choose lactic acid for that instead?
That's a good point . at a low concentration there shouldn't be any systemic effects. So lactate seems interesting.
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@AinmBeo yes I looked into that yesterday. And I'll be going for "drinkable" food grade alcohol. It's more expensive, but the other alcohol is purposefully made un-drinkable with a bunch of additives.
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@Mauritio
Yes.
I see a lot of food grade 190 proof sugar cane-based ethanol on amazon. I base that "food grade 190 proof sugar cane-based ethanol" choice on comments on the Peat site about this very issue. That looks right.
But I am going to the local ETOH store (right next to the pot store...next to the cigarette store) to see, is their Everclear 190 proof food grade ETOH cheaper than the same type of amazon product. -
Here's a bunch of people that claim harder water , containing more calcium carbonate, making their hair more healthy .
Interesting observation . Maybe it's the alkaline pH of the carbonate making it anti-fungal?
My hair has drastically lost health and thickness since moving to a city with soft water. Any ways to make my water harder?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Haircare/s/e1hgEg4eHLDare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
I have added potassium bicarbonate to the formula at 0.5% .
Updated formula
D-Glucose: 1%
Apple Peel Polyphenols: 1%
NMN: 1%
Sodium Butyrate: 0.075%
Potassium Bicarbonate: 0.5%
Ethanol: 35%
Water: 65% -
@Mauritio said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
Any ways to make my water harder?
Putting it in the freezer might help
On a more serious note, I think there are some shower filters that add calcium and magnesium to the water.
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RPF forum member tyw seemed to somewhat agree . At least he saw lactate as the perfect brain fuel. Maybe that's true for hair as well.
Perhaps tissues that are sensitive to peroxidative damage do well with anaerobic glycolisis and using lactate ?!
"NOTE: the brain heavily regulates oxygen delivery to various tissues, and if those processes are disrupted, we can get over-oxygenation and therefore peroxidation of many brain components.
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SIDENOTE AGAIN: this is one of the reasons I am a supporter of the theory that Lactate is the ideal brain fuel."https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/tyw-said-something-that-makes-alot-of-sense.15816/post-217831
"Elevated ROS levels in hair follicle cells during the catagen phase facilitate hair follicle degeneration through the regulation of Trx1 and Foxp1 (Zhao et al., 2015). Balding scalps exhibits increased levels of ROS in the dermal papillae compared to non-balding scalps (Shin et al., 2013; Bakry et al., 2014)."
https://www.biomolther.org/journal/view.html?uid=1565&vmd=Full&
