What to do about Orange Juice causing high histamine?
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Hi,
Short answer:
They are a lot of foodstuff that are producers or freer of histamine. Our capacity to neutralize and evacuate histamine is limited. We have mainly to act on minimum 3 levels:- Moderate some kind of food, at least temporally.
- Take care of excitatory situations.
- Help to evacuate Histamine: Supplement needed to compensate for body deficiencies to make it easier to recover.
Figure: Leaky bucket: Histamine in excess brings unbalance that leads to intolerance.
See translated article below or read the underlined text (no possibility to underline, here, sorry).
Article (translated):
Carole Minker explains how to tackle this excess histamine to resolve the multiple symptoms it causes.
Dr. Carole Minker. Health Body Mind. 06/2024 (French health magazine)
If you have histaminosis, should you take antihistamines?
Antihistamines are molecules that block H1 or H2 receptors. They will therefore eliminate some of the symptoms, but in no case will they reduce the presence of histamine (for various reasons). The latter can continue to activate the other receptors, and still produce a general inflammatory state. Furthermore, we do not eliminate the initial conditions responsible for histaminosis, which must therefore be taken care of.
The 6 causes of histaminosis
They are multiple and can be added to each other.The enzymatic origin
Enzymes are, in a way, workers responsible for carrying out transformations of various molecules in our body. Regarding histamine, we observe two types of enzymes:
The enzyme responsible for producing histamine from the amino acid histidine, and through an enzyme called histidine decarboxylase (HDC).
This enzyme can be too active in certain very specific cases and cause excess histamine production. There is also a class of drugs called “atypical antihistamines” (for example tritoqualine), which block the action of HDC.
Enzymes that break down histamine:- In the intestinal mucosa: DAO (diamine oxidase) – we will come back to this a little later;
- In the rest of the tissues (notably the nervous system): HNMT.
In some people, there are variants of DAO (called polymorphisms), due to genetic mutations. It can therefore happen that it functions less well and cannot sufficiently break down histamine, leading to histaminosis.
In some people, there are variants of DAO (called polymorphisms), due to genetic mutations. It can therefore happen that it functions less well and cannot sufficiently break down histamine, leading to histaminosis. (…)
In this case, the problems linked to this polymorphism are present from childhood. If they appeared in adulthood, it is very likely that the origin of the problem lies elsewhere. Regarding HNMT, there is, on the contrary, much less polymorphism. However, the activity of this enzyme depends on methylation, which is notably taken care of by another enzyme called MTHFR. The latter may also be less functional due to a polymorphism, which is also common in the population. (Deficiency present in 1/3 to 2/3 of the population, for 2 genes or 1 gene, respectively, Editor's note).
Food origin
DAO is present in the intestinal mucosa. Its role is to allow you to eat foods rich in histamine without developing histaminosis. We understand that if this enzyme functions poorly, there will be too much histamine. What can be the dietary causes of histaminosis?
You consume certain foods rich in histamine;
The diet is deficient in micronutrients (vitamins B6, B9, B12, C, zinc, iron, copper) essential for the proper functioning of the DAO: we are talking about enzymatic cofactors;
You consume certain foods that inhibit DAO activity: energy drinks, tea, alcohol... the latter two also contain a lot of histamine!
You consume foods (or medications!) that do not contain histamine, but which trigger the degranulation of mast cells and therefore the release of histamine in the body.
Be careful of the accumulation of causes, which aggravates histaminosis! You may also have an environment conducive to the release of histamine (sensitive mast cells).
Nuts, olives, egg whites… They are rich in histamine! (Framed)
Overall, foods rich in histamine are fermented, marinated, smoked or no longer fresh foods: cold meats (deli meat), mature cheeses, ground meat, soy sauce, sauerkraut, pickles, olives, mustard, etc. Let us also mention fatty fish, seafood, legumes, oilseeds (nuts), egg white, offal. In the fruit and vegetable section: mushrooms except Paris champignons (button mushroom), eggplant, spinach, arugula, tomatoes, kiwis, citrus fruits, seaweed, spices… And for soft drinks, there is notably coffee and black tea. Additives are also concerned: flavorings, alcohol, flavor enhancers, etc.
Some of these foods, rich in histamine, also trigger the release of histamine by activation of mast cells: this is particularly the case with wine. (End of frame).
The intestinal origin
Digestive causes are at the origin of an imbalance between the load and the degradation capacity. Here are different possible scenarios, which can be combined: - Intestinal hyper-permeability (leaky gut) leads to an alteration of the intestinal mucosa and therefore of the production of DAO, which is located precisely at this location in the body;
- DAO, in addition to taking care of histamine, this enzyme primarily targets other biogenic amines (i.e. amines manufactured by our body), notably putrescine and cadaverine. If DAO is saturated by these biogenic amines, it is less available to degrade histamine. This is the case when there is putrefactive dysbiosis, that is to say an imbalance of the microbiota in the descending colon (left side). We can consider the presence of such an imbalance when we have gas and loose stools;
- The presence of intestinal candidiasis: Candida in its mycelial form, proliferative and toxic, goes against the breakdown of histamine;
- The presence of SIBO (Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth, or bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine) disrupts the functioning of the DAO because of the numerous bacteria. You may suspect the presence of SIBO if you have a swollen stomach after a meal and are sensitive to certain foods (several foods note’s editor).
DAO, magnesium, flavonoids… in treatment (framed)
And while waiting to see concrete results, it is possible to take DAO in the form of a food supplement, but some people do not tolerate it. Certain antioxidants calm mast cells, such as flavonoids (quercetin, naringin), to be combined with magnesium. It is also important to correct deficiencies after dosing (copper, iron, zinc, B group vitamins, and vitamin C), with the food supplement that suits you (which must be tolerated). Since MTHFR polymorphism is common, and HNMT requires the methylation process to function, be sure to choose the methylated forms of vitamin B9 (methylfolate) and B12 (methylcobalamin). (End of frame).
Comment (LucH): I took DAOzyme 1,000,000 IU, taken in the morning and evening, afterwards in the morning. Do not stop suddenly but gradually. The price is not given but it is effective if we take other parameters into account. I currently take 1 caps in the morning 5 to 10 minutes before a meal. You must consult a PDF docx in order to become aware of the foods that produce and release histamine. In the event of a crisis, it is imperative to avoid L3 (L for liberate, and H for Histamine).
The hormonal origin
Different hormonal imbalances can lead to or maintain histaminosis:
Hyperestrogenism: it can be absolute (excess of estrogen) or relative (insufficiency of progesterone). (…) - A state of chronic stress or burn-out: situations of pathological stress (increased synthesis of cortisol) and burn-out (the adrenals become exhausted and no longer produce it) are favorable to the installation or worsening of histaminosis;
- A thyroid imbalance: if you have hypothyroidism, insufficient T3 hormone (which normally inhibits the release of histamine) will open the door to histaminosis. In cases of hyperthyroidism, there is excessive activation of histamine receptors. Whether the thyroid is under- or over-activated, the situation creates a favorable climate for the appearance of histaminosis.
Autoimmune origin
In the case of autoimmune pathology, there is a dysfunction of the immune system favoring the development of histaminosis. For example, there is a strong correlation between Hashimoto's thyroiditis and histaminosis.
Microbial origin
Certain chronic viral or fungal infections accentuate the release of histamine, because their super-antigens are mast cell activators. The mast cells are overused: this is SAMA (mast cell activation syndrome). These include cold infections (herpes, EBV, Lyme) but also Covid, probably through the Spike protein, as well as fungal infections such as candidiasis among other pathogenic fungi, and molds that provide mycotoxins.
What to do in case of histaminosis?
The symptoms of histaminosis become more pronounced as the causes accumulate.
Adopt a “low histamine” diet
The first action to take is to silence histaminosis by adopting a so-called “low histamine” diet, by eliminating foods rich in histamine or which trigger the degranulation of mast cells. Ideally, we will also eliminate foods rich in sulphites, oxalates and salicylates. Choose fresh foods and reintroduce foods one by one to identify those that are problematic for you.
Addressing the root cause of histaminosis
Then, we will have to attack the root cause at the origin of the histaminosis because otherwise it will flare up again when the initial diet is resumed. As we have seen, there are multiple, very varied causes that can be combined. (…)
It is important to manage histaminosis because it can have serious long-term consequences, particularly cardiovascular ones: excess histamine promotes the development of atherosclerotic plaques and the passage of LDL cholesterol through the vascular walls, and therefore by extension thromboembolic accidents.
Carole Minker.
Carole Minker is a doctor of pharmacy and pharmacognosy, qualified in micronutrition and aromatherapy and trained in homeopathy.Useful links :
- My log : Démangeaison et Histamine – Journal de Suivi 2
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2029-demangeaison-et-histamine-journal-de-suivi-2?highlight=histamine - Comment traiter l’intolérance à l’histamine. Cercle vicieux entre l’histamine et la dominance en estrogène.
=> How to deal with histamine intolerance. Vicious circle between histamine and estrogen dominance (In French, translator needed)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1745-traiter-lintolerance-a-lhistamine#22750
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Do you have problems with oxalates?
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@PeatPerspective Do other carb sources cause issues? I prefer using honey and dates over OJ personally
The earth speaks to us all, Just listen
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@Serotoninskeptic said in What to do about Orange Juice causing high histamine?:
@PeatPerspective Do other carb sources cause issues? I prefer using honey and dates over OJ personally
Medool dates are rich in oxalate . You're going to have méthylation problèmes. Read thé links.
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@LucH said in What to do about Orange Juice causing high histamine?:
@Serotoninskeptic said in What to do about Orange Juice causing high histamine?:
@PeatPerspective Do other carb sources cause issues? I prefer using honey and dates over OJ personally
Medool dates are rich in oxalate . You're going to have méthylation problèmes. Read thé links.
i didnt know that thank you
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@LucH Wow that is very detailed. Thanks for taking the time to help
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@foxgelb No I don't seem too. Though I didn't even know what they were
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@foxgelb Dates I dislike the taste. Honey is ok I suppose
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@PeatPerspective You could try replacing some OJ with honey water. That works better for me
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@LucH dates dont have high oxalates, the exact info is available from studies.
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@sneedful said in What to do about Orange Juice causing high histamine?:
dates dont have high oxalates, the exact info is available from studies.
I have several sources mentioning no oxalates and other "respectful" ones (4x) mentioning the contrary.
I can post if you're receptive
And why : Oxalates are natural compounds found in vegetables, fruits, nuts, and grains.
This inhibiting effect is due to the binding functions of antinutrients in plants in order to protect the species: If the animals eat too much of them, the natural cycle would be stopped.
