Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?

Mauritio

@Luke Its almost as effective as prednisone!

Mauritio

Today I took half a capsule of my Tulsi extract, which comes down to 200mg of the extract including 4mg ursolic acid.

feels subjectively androgenic, libido slighlty higher, muscle seem fuller, chest looks firm
Mood is good and relaxed. It was maybe not the best idea to take it in the morning. Its more of a afternoon/ evening supp, due its calming effects. Although it isnt sedating, it has some pro dopamine molecules like ursolic acid in it.
skin looks smooth and glowing, which I normally I get from antioxidants or youth steroids.
Suspect some antimicrobial effects going on in the gut

So far, so good!

Mauritio

@Mauritio said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

4mg ursolic acid.

This study shows that even very small doses of ursolic acid can have an dopaminergicly mediated anti-depressant effect- HEDs of 0.5 and 0.05mg were effective while 5 and 50mg actually showed less / no benefit. So by me consuming 4mg im moving out of the benefit territtory. But tulsi is sp much more than ursolic acid, so its hard to say how it impacts overall effects. But I might try a lower dose in the future maybe like 1mg.

https://sci-hub.voed.top/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091305712002377

In this study ursolic acid has spectacular results on Klotho, Sirt1 and 6 and PGCa. Although the dosage was 1250mg(HED), so not attainable from tulsi extract. But maybe lower doses have beneficial effect as well.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317266088_Ursolic_Acid_Mediates_Hepatic_Protection_through_Enhancing_of_anti-aging_Biomarkers

Mauritio

Tulsi shortened the healing period of a fracture in animals by two weeks.
It also slightly increases calcium and lowers phosphate.

Subjectively I can say that my teeth feel more solid and stable a similar effect which I get from boron, which also increases calcium and vitamin D .

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4178353/

Mauritio

So after another day I can say, it definitely feels androgenic, libido is increased, muscles fuller . Feeling more energetic and confident.

Yesterday I took it after work and starting getting energetic again but it also feels anti-stress at the same time.

Only downside is it messes with my sleep, only slept 6-7h last 2 days . Not sure why. There are some pro-dopamine substances in Tulsi like rosmarinic acid or ursolic acid.
It's not that I can't fall asleep, it just seems less restful and I wake up early .
I found a few reports of that on reddit, although other people say that it's great for sleep.

I'll do a washout of 2 days and then I'll try the Microdose of 25mg to replicate the above animal study where it still doubled testosterone in hopes of not getting sleep issues.
After that I'll probably try baiclin or the grains of paradise again .

Ismail

@Mauritio wow this is very interesting! I’m pleasantly surprised and happy at the positive effects!! How long you gonna do the micro dose for? Or you gonna see how it goes for the first couple of days etc.?

Mauritio

@Ismail hey mate, I'll try it for one day first and see if sleep is impacted in any way...

cs3000

@Mauritio hmm some big results ty,
its odd how variable they are though

so that first study was very high dose as an extract, they showed testosterone crashed

here in rats feeding an extract crashed testosterone too , with LH going up in response,
again very high dose 500mg/kg of extract , 95% ethanol extract
ursolic acid didnt play much of a role
https://www.ijpsonline.com/articles/a-study-on-the-effect-of-ocimum-sanctum-linn-leaf-extract-and-ursolic-acid-on-spermatogenesis-in-male-rats.pdf

here using lower doses up to 300mg/kg in mice didnt impair fertility (restored it against cigarette smoke, test not mentioned)
(is it the extract process, dose, or the location of the leaf creating the increase vs decrease?
they said ethanol here, was it 100%?)
http://repository.unusa.ac.id/9598/1/The Effectiveness of Extract Basil Leaves on Motility and Morphology of Spermatozoa Mice Exposed with Cigarette Smoke.pdf

feeding just the leaves to rats caused infertility here too. because of high acidity, with decreased testes weight.
but cant see the amount given
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Antifertility-effect-of-Ocimum-sanctum-L.-Kasinathan-Ramakrishnan/401cf7dfa99306f89296dcfb8fc2353f8d69d2ca

2 weeks of stopping = reversal
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/REVERSIBLE-ANTI-FERTILITY-EFFECT-OF-BENZENE-EXTRACT-Ahmed-R.-Ahamed/7a7b9a2725a96c71028e519f924f79664a246714

Great effect for the fresh leaves + rabbit studies though using 2g of leaves,
high dose of an extract showed opposite effect for thyroid too

However, Panda et al have reported
that OS leaf extract (0.5 g/ kg body weight)
led to significant decrease in serum T3 and
T4 levels which are in contrast to our study.
[19]

maybe best to use dried leaf powder instead of extract so get all compounds water & fat / ethanol soluble

2g leaves
2kg rabbits
1g leaf / kg , human dose maybe ~20g - 30g leaf ( 2g - 3g leaf powder if wet weight 10:1 (?) )

~5g of fresh tulsi leaf paste showed good anti inflammatory effect https://www.researchgate.net/publication/289802769_Anti_inflammatory_activity_of_fresh_tulsi_leaves_Ocimum_Sanctum_in_albino_rats

some of the compounds (water soluble part only) https://sci-hub.ru/https://doi.org/10.1111/and.14179

But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was india

300mg/kg dose of just the oil extract caused infertility and lowered testosterone , 100mg/kg didnt raise or lower testosterone https://dergipark.org.tr/en/pub/jabs/issue/34910/387191

so its probably the water soluble compounds responsible , or leaves from certain locations

dark green basil leaves have novel peptides https://bmccomplementmedtherapies.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12906-023-04098-2

wester130

@Mauritio

would you eve take schisandra/reishi etc?

Mauritio

@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

here in rats feeding an extract crashed testosterone too , with LH going up in response,
again very high dose 500mg/kg of extract , 95% ethanol extract
ursolic acid didnt play much of a role

Interesting because that was the same dose caused an increase in progesterone in female mice without altering other hormones

@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

is it the extract process, dose, or the location of the leaf creating the increase vs decrease?
they said ethanol here, was it 100%?)

I read that even amongst plants harvested from the same field the chemical composition varies a lot. So the best thing is probably to try out different kinds and dosages . I happen to have found an extract that works . But i also like the idea of the dried leave powder. I ordered some of the droed leave powder for basil and holy basil. Since they're pretty cheap.

@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was india

This study used basil not holy basil .
basil (Ocimum basilicum) and holy basil (Ocimum tenuiflorum, also called Ocimum sanctum) are different in chemical composition . While basil (Ocimum basilicum) also seems to have a pro- Testo effect, we can't transfer the dosage 1:1 to holy basil.
That was a mistake I made as well , study on Microdose-basil I posted actually uses basil not holy basil , so I don't know if I'd get the same effects from a microdose of holy basil. But since everything varies so much here anyway, it's best to just try it out.

The odd thing is that both the Microdose 25mg of basil and the mega dose 20g (1.5g/kg) seems to have the same effect on testosterone (increase in about 80-100%) that's a 1000x the dosage. Lol something doesn't add up here or the therapeutic window of Basil (Ocimum Basilicum) is extremely large.

The side effects only showed with Ocimum Sanctum not O. Basilicum, so maybe it is even a better alternative ?

Mauritio

Although in the basil microdose study they also state

"Each rat used 3 gr of the powder
daily for 45 days."

Not sure why they're saying this as this wasn't they did.

"One of the
subgroups, as the diabetic control group,
received normal saline and the other two
subgroups, as the treatment groups,orally
received 2 and 4 mg/kg of basil powder,..."
https://www.mlj.goums.ac.ir/article-1-774-en.html

cs3000

@Mauritio

@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was india

This study used basil not holy basil .
basil (Ocimum basilicum) and holy basil (Ocimum tenuiflorum, also called Ocimum sanctum) are different in chemical composition . While basil (Ocimum basilicum) also seems to have a pro- Testo effect, we can't transfer the dosage 1:1 to holy basil.
That was a mistake I made as well , study on Microdose-basil I posted actually uses basil not holy basil , so I don't know if I'd get the same effects from a microdose of holy basil. But since everything varies so much here anyway, it's best to just try it out.

The odd thing is that both the Microdose 25mg of basil and the mega dose 20g (1.5g/kg) seems to have the same effect on testosterone (increase in about 80-100%) that's a 1000x the dosage. Lol something doesn't add up here or the therapeutic window of Basil (Ocimum Basilicum) is extremely large.

The side effects only showed with Ocimum Sanctum not O. Basilicum, so maybe it is even a better alternative ?

yeah that is fucked lol ,
sounds like its an ethanol extract so 2mg/kg of ethanol extract. and 4mg/kg didnt give any further effect than 2x testosterone. but yeah its very fucked how far apart they are

ok Ocimum basilicum sweet basil , so same one that showed test increase in sheep eating the whole plant

Mauritio

Here's another cool study for basil (O. basilicium, NOT holy basil) on Testosterone.

If anyone is still following this thread at this point you might want to go for basil not holy basil. Or both. I just haven't seen a single negative study on basil in relation to testosterone and for holy basil there are a few.

In arsenic treated rats it was able to almost completely restore their testosterone values to normal . Unfortunately they didn't have a control+ basil group , but basil almost tripled the T value of the arsenic treated rats compared to only arsenic treated rats. It also restored sperm health and testes weight and increased antioxidant enzymes drastically .

All of this especially at the highest dose of 500mg/kg, HED= 6g of O. Basilicum 95% alcohol extract.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356840663_Potential_ameliorative_effects_of_Ocimum_basilicum_extract_and_leaves_on_testicular_toxicity_induced_by_sodium_arsenite_in_male_rats

Mauritio

There might be a few MAO-B inhibitors in basil.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32883197/

cs3000

O. basilicium water extract fully restored glucose & insulin measures in diabetes model
https://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=pjbs.2020.1010.1017
increases glucose uptake by cells

& increased sleep duration on a sedative more than diazapam , decreased time taken to fall asleep a couple minutes by itself (through GABA) so maybe best timing is PM https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5020426/#sec162951
extract with both water & ethanol solubles had greatest effect (potential for gaba rebound though)

Mauritio

Another reason to favor O. Basilicum !
Yeah it does have a glucose lowering effect. There's a few studies on basil as a diabetes treatment . I notice the hypoglycemic effect.

Interesting in that dosage it actually caused sleep issues for me . Although that was O. Sanctum and not O. Basilicum as in this study.

In this study O .basilicum extract had sleep benefits in menopausal women. Dosage: 250mg extract.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36750371/

Although in this study it showed no effect on sleep.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11795059/

Mauritio

"The biochemical parameters of hepatic function, renal function, glucose, triglyceride, and cholesterol level were significantly reduced in the treatment groups compared with the control group (p < 0.05)"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39555564/#&gid=article-figures&pid=figure-1-uid-0

cs3000

@Mauritio
looks best trying close to sleep / or before last meal with carbs with the glucose effect, if theyre similar here maybe it wore off and caused lower gaba activity through the night? if dosed high the rebound could hit excessively looks potent

In this study O .basilicum extract had sleep benefits in menopausal women. Dosage: 250mg extract.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36750371/
Although in this study it showed no effect on sleep.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11795059/

so shows 1g of dry plant powder is too low for effects. i have effective dose of dried leaves powder at 2.5g - 7.5g

Hearthfire

I've grown basil the last few years, it's amazing in stir fry. I got almost addicted to it, I wonder if my body was craving the effects it was having without me consciously noticing

I know what I'm definitely growing again this year
I'll probably do italian basil and holy basil to test out both.

Mauritio

@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

@Mauritio
looks best trying close to sleep / or before last meal with carbs with the glucose effect, if theyre similar here maybe it wore off and caused lower gaba activity through the night? if dosed high the rebound could hit excessively looks potent

In this study O .basilicum extract had sleep benefits in menopausal women. Dosage: 250mg extract.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36750371/
Although in this study it showed no effect on sleep.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11795059/

so shows 1g of dry plant powder is too low for effects. i have effective dose of dried leaves powder at 2.5g - 7.5g

Even the microdose (30mg) caused waking up to early for me. It felt like hypoglycemia, woke up with a pounding heart.

But maybe you're onto something with the GABA theory. GABA rebound is real.

I obtained dried powder of both basils and will continue experimenting.