On creative thinking and childlike imagination and play

SanguisEtAqua

To keep it short, this is what I am experiencing:

I struggle to come up with fictional stories
I struggle to come up with unique conversation topics
Most of my answers in conversations are an agreement/disagreement to what has been said. Answers are cliched. Very rarely can I come up with something to say, that is not a direct answer to what has been said, but something that is slightly less related to what has been said, but is more creative and still makes sense. That is, I struggle to be playful in conversation.
I struggle in play with children, it does not come naturally to me, I usually don't know what to say or do.

I wanted to ask if some of you have experienced this and whether or not this is a metabolic problem. Maybe it isn't metabolic and it is psychological. Thank you!

dapose

Hi! Try this. When talking with someone, put your right hand in your pocket. And start moving around your left hand when you speak. Touch your face maybe your mouth with your left hand and just general gesturing… and move your body back and forth or side to side. You might feel self conscience but get over it. Or use that as a talking point. Laugh at yourself doing this and use that as a jumping off topic point.
Also, stop making bullet points so much when you write. I mean, that is very rigid and I sign of you needing to control words and structures. Which is fine but definitely a sign of left brain analytical logic based thinking. You have to figure out a way to learn how to sing also. Just find a pitch and hold it and let yourself listen to your own voice. The sound of you! It needs to enter into your ears so don’t try to sing ontop of someone else’s music.
You could sing a e I o u in a long held out tone. Fun! Yay! I do this when I’m driving sometimes! Also if you’re going to be meeting someone like for dinner or something, while your on your way to meet the person talk to yourself about how fun it is going to be to talk to this person and really envision that you will be bringing up great topics and have lots to say! It really works!

dapose

The reality is, this is definitely related to stress metabolism, high estrogen and high serotonin. But I am not really qualified to explain why. Best advice I can give is to look into Ray Peats articles or interviews searching for these topics. Creativity Language etc.
I would also recommend get out in nature more and spend time talking to nature in your mind while on walks or working in the yard. Or try and start making art somehow that you might be drawn to. This creation will guide you better than anyone on a forum could.

water

@SanguisEtAqua said in On creative thinking and childlike imagination and play:

To keep it short, this is what I am experiencing:

I struggle to come up with fictional stories

I struggle to come up with unique conversation topics

Most of my answers in conversations are an agreement/disagreement to what has been said. Answers are cliched. Very rarely can I come up with something to say, that is not a direct answer to what has been said, but something that is slightly less related to what has been said, but is more creative and still makes sense. That is, I struggle to be playful in conversation.

I struggle in play with children, it does not come naturally to me, I usually don't know what to say or do.

I wanted to ask if some of you have experienced this and whether or not this is a metabolic problem. Maybe it isn't metabolic and it is psychological. Thank you!

Yo, you dont need to come up with fictional stories and unique conversation topics, optimal to talk about what you enjoy and/or think might benefit others, people are interested or not interested. If most of your answered are agreement disagreement, i suggest talk with people you feel confortable enough to say what you want to say spontaneously, and to stop spending time with people that dont feel confortable saying what you want to say spontaneously.

Corngold

@SanguisEtAqua

are you a teacher? When / why do you need to come up with fictional stories? Try reading more fiction or history.
"unique conversation" can be managed by reading and researching more, and also taking risks with less usual (not creepy) topics. Maybe try that slowly.
yes/no answers for me reflects lack of engagement. I have plenty of necessary conversations where I am not too engaged and see pushing greater engagement as a risk not worth taking. I'm "introverted" which might be like saying "not being able to talk and joke about many things with very many people."
struggling at playfulness with kids I think is struggling with playfulness in general. We have our child self, but also the adult self, and the parent self.
Try to understand each of these modes and what it means to be in one of them more than the other two. Playfulness probably goes back to imagination - being able to envision things.

It might not be much help but it's pretty entertaining to see kids very engaged / lost in play. The outer world of "Facts" has no significance, and they are satisfied with the ball or toy or game.

Psychology is at least partly metabolic; I won't take the hard materialist view here because physical health and nutrition only goes so far. Mental and spiritual strength may be more relevant. It is difficult to understand the relation between physical health and spiritual health.

NoeticJuice

See these two threads:

@dapose said in On creative thinking and childlike imagination and play:

sing also

@dapose said in On creative thinking and childlike imagination and play:

get out in nature more

@Corngold said in On creative thinking and childlike imagination and play:

Try reading more fiction
"unique conversation" can be managed by reading and researching more

I second these. Reading a variety of nonfiction can broaden perspective. Reading fiction can improve empathy and make it easier to write your own stories. Fiction can also be a way to explore ideas.

About singing, don't think of it as a skill you need to perfect. Just sing, and preferably also have fun doing so. You can improve your skill too if you want, of course. Feel free to sing along with music if you like.

I'm not especially fond of the idea of talking to nature with words. Here's something else you could try:

@NoeticJuice said in Lobotomize-me athletic logs:

practicing being aware of my entire visual field . . . started by practicing it every time I walked in the nearby forest . . . 2 or 3 times a day, 15-30 minutes at a time.

You don't have to follow this exact plan. Do what works for you.

@SanguisEtAqua said in On creative thinking and childlike imagination and play:

Maybe it isn't metabolic and it is psychological.

The mental and physical influence each other. Improving metabolism through diet/supplements might help, but some inner (mental/spiritual, if that's the right word) work might be needed or at least useful (improving metabolism can also help to do this).

Childlike play and creativity require a loosening of grip. One of the things that could move a person towards excess control, and suppression of spontaneity, is the feeling that they need to follow some rules--they need to control themselves to adjust to and abide by the rules. Similar thing can happen from negative social experience. But knowing what in the past led to the current condition might not be necessary to overcome it. I can't give a step-by-step formula for this kind of work, but I can share some possibly useful ideas.

Self-honesty is of utmost importance here, but idk if saying that helps anything (all of us are always completely honest to ourselves, right? By the way, right hemisphere damage, causing greater reliance on the left hemisphere, can lead to increased confabulation. Suppressing the left or enhancing the right, therefore shifting dominance more towards the right, can decrease confabulation). Having a great need for that self-honesty (needing it to achieve something very important) might help. Taking some time to just be with your thoughts, not occupied with anything else (work, study, gaming, etc.), might also be useful.

Kanna is something you might want to look into. It might be able to reduce threat responsivity (could help with inner work and decreasing excess control) and increase cognitive flexibility.

You can read about my experience with kanna here:

https://bioenergetic.forum/post/47014

@dapose said in On creative thinking and childlike imagination and play:

The reality is, this is definitely related to stress metabolism, high estrogen and high serotonin.

This might be generally true with serotonin, and it's probably generally better to reduce serotonin to improve health, but there's more nuance to it. See 5-HT2A receptor.

Cognance is a 5-HT2A PAM (interestingly also a M1 PAM) and might increase creativity and the ability to shift perspective and change. It's supposedly similar to microdosing. I haven't tried Cognance yet, but I'm interested in doing so.

rohmilchbubi

Limiting my answer just on your title: creative thinking and childlike imagination and play. Many ways to tackle this.
.

Reverse early childhood indoctrination through schooling, esp premature reading and writing
- Reading usually creates a singular input channel, limits interaction and spontaneity, suppresses engagement with a tale or teller
- Writing in a schooled setting forces standardization and formalization - your raw brain output must conform to pre-approved structures to even be allowed out.
- Both force your thoughts to be filtered through spelling, grammar, correctness etc, your whole expression becomes kind of a nice performance, instead being ugly, raw, fluid, unfiltered.
- In this sense, avoid also the usual "artistic" expressions (drawing, painting, making music), because the main mode many people get into this with is already loaded with a predetermined image or idea of how it should be. They have an unconscious curriculum for how to approach something like drawing (e.g., first learn to draw the human body, then this and that, etc.)
  .
Speak out loud every day everything what's in your mind for at least 1min. Your way of talking needs to be fluid: no stuttering, no hesitation, no shame, no limitations. After a while it will disrupt the usual responses you give in conversations.
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Increase frequency of daydreaming states through raw movement for imagination
- All goal-based, standardized, routine procedures (workouts, fitness regimens, jogging etc.) are toxic to creativity, people who stick to rigid movement routines are almost always creatively retarded.
- Instead movements like Jumping, swinging, swaying, rocking, stretching, floating, dancing, hopping, spinning, rolling, crawling, balancing etc.
- Useful Tools: rebounder, indoor swing, hammock
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Interrupt bad internal feedback loops suppressing creativity through the right pharmaceuticals, like alpha blockers, beta blockers, prolactin inhibitors, etc.
By reducing surface-level symptoms, they reintroduce the possibility of behavioral change. They open a window for new patterns to form. Propranolol would be an excellent choice for the beginning
.
Restricting input in general, stick to high-signal, low-noise material
- So much audio/video/text to choose from: Louisiana Channel, Henrik Karlsson, Scearpo, Nietzsche, dissidents in general and so on
  .
Ideas Rule and the 10,000 Experiments Rule by James Altucher
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpN6zw3s3kA

gg12

@SanguisEtAqua don’t get stuck in this overly analytical OCD type thinking. If you force something to change it won’t. I would recommend just observing your ego / thoughts (which are not your own )
And just engaging in the conversation mo matter where it goes.
Also it may feel uncomfortable and wrong because “it’s not a certain way “ “or oh it needs to be going on this direction “ but just still talk as the thoughts play on.

-this is my interpretation

GlucoseGal

@SanguisEtAqua It could be a low energy problem and it could also be a ‘too much technology’ problem. I know when I’m too attached to my phone I’ve got very little creativity. Playing with children on the other hand can be just plain boring if it’s not your interest. I adore my toddler, but I’d rather stare at the roof than play with other people’s kids.