Trump just convinced Coca-Cola to use real sugar in domestic Coke!
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Ray Peat rules!
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@16characterstwas the study ray referenced on HFCS being somehow higher in calories got retracted IIRC and a follow up study IIRC determined it was just a measurement/lab error.
so what's the problem with HFCS, really? seems like it was a non-issue from the start. I don't even think twice when I get HFCS drinks and when brands advertise they are HFCS free I really dont care.
Getting all the deep fryers in McDonald's switched over to high-oleic sunflower would have been reasonable and probably made more market sense than promoting beef tallow. ofc guys like RFK and etc probably aren't even aware of this product and how the option makes sense, and would be an easy switch over (liquid at room temp and the fields that grow canola or sunflower currently could just switch to the seed stock for high-oleic varieties, and would improve the health of anyone who eats the deep-fried foods.
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@sunsunsun said in Trump just convinced Coca-Cola to use real sugar in domestic Coke!:
what's the problem with HFCS, really?
When I see HFCS (High Fructose Corn syrup) or glucose-fructose syrup in the components of a product, e.g. in yoghurt, I put it back on the shelf. Why?
No problem I there is fructose in a fruit because fructose is bound with fibers. (1) Fructose is not the devil, as Mercola seemed to say, in ancient posts. He’s now more moderate if …
I target 50/50 fructose / glucose. 50 g for each is fine. I target 200 - 250 g carbs on my food log (1000 Kcal). 45% of my energy needs. Best if my carbs are dressed to avoid an insulin spike.
Note: Fructose is taken up and metabolized almost entirely by the liver, when HD fructose comes in once, whereas the majority of an oral glucose load escapes the liver to be metabolized in peripheral tissues when required (physical expenditures).To be known: What raises uric acid?
It's been known that meats and purine rich foods can raise uric acid, but it turns out that one of the most potent ways to raise uric acid is by consuming large amounts of fructose! You probably already know fructose is a sugar, but you may not realize is that it's distinctly different from other sugars, as it's metabolized in your body through very specific pathways that differ from those of glucose. Uric acid is a by-product of fructose metabolism. In fact, fructose typically generates uric acid within minutes of ingestion. (2)Sources
- raypeat.com
Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context.
Glucose and sucrose. Sugar issues. - Uric acid is a major component of obesity, high blood pressure and kidney disease. In fact, Dr. Richard Johnson discovered that 90 percent of obese adolescents newly diagnosed with high blood pressure had elevated uric acid levels. The ideal range for uric acid lies between 3 to 5.5 mg per dl.
Dr. Richard Johnson, former professor of medicine at the University of Colorado. - Why fructose with protein? To prevent from cortisol spike. Ray Peat
=> No meal with only meat and fat. Our body requires some carbs to avoid an insulin spike. 20 g is enough, for me. A tomato or an apple could do the job, if eaten at first.
https://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=5559&p=65830&hilit=fructose+ratio#p65830
Excerpt from the old RP forum
The amino acids in the protein themselves are strong stimulants of the insulin secretion and when you don't take in sugar, the insulin to dispose of the protein will lower your blood sugar and to prevent the blood sugar going down you tend to produce either adrenalin or cortisol or both. And if your liver didn't have the glycogen stored to release glucose under the influence of adrenalin, then you depend on cortisol to keep your blood sugar steady and cortisol activates the conversion of protein to sugar and fat and so you've destroyed a big part of the protein that you've just eaten. I've seen people who were eating a couple of pounds of meat a day who were having signs of protein deficiency and getting fat. So to handle the protein efficiently you need the glucose to make sure that your insulin isn't lowering your blood sugar, you need either glucose or fructose to steady your blood sugar.
And the fat does several things. The saturated fat works with fructose and insulin to handle your oxidation of the glucose and the fat also slows the absorption so that you don't get a surge of glucose in your blood when you, say, have coffee with sugar. And the coffee, like the glucose, stimulates your metabolic rate and both of those, by increasing your metabolic rate, are going to increase your general nutritional requirements: minerals and all of the vitamins have to be adequate and if you don’t substitute the sugar for things like fruit, milk, cheese, shellfish, eggs and so on, then you will very likely become deficient in biotin and Vitamin B6 and pantothenic acid, selenium and copper are things that are among the first to become deficient if you try to run on too much coffee and sugar and not enough food. - Fructose ratio
Some would say 1:1 or 1:2 (protein:carbs), depending on metabolism.
if 20-30g protein per meal, this gives you an idea: For 100 g fish, 24 g protein, I would then need minimum 24 g carbs.
If they come from fruits and honey (+/ 50 % fructose and 50 % glucose), it would mean 48 g carbs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22351714
NB: Fructose does not seem to cause weight gain when it is substituted for other carbohydrates in diets providing similar calories. - Is fructose really the devil?
Why dietary fructose coming from fruit, with fiber, is protective, not deleterious, if not consumed in excess (when saturating intestinal clearance capacity).
The Small Intestine Converts Dietary Fructose into Glucose and Organic Acids
Cholsoon Jang, Sheng Hui et al. 2017
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2017.12.016 NB: High-Dose Fructose Saturates Intestinal Capacity and the Extra Fructose Is Digested by Liver and Microbiota. https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdf/S1550-4131(17)30729-5.pdf
=> The small intestine nearly completely clears low doses of fructose, but passes higher doses of fructose to the liver (in the jejunum fructose is nearly maximal at 0.5 g/kg fructose).
While we find that low doses of fructose are ~90% cleared in the small intestine, higher doses pass substantially (>30%) to the liver. The percentage is giving according to the capacity of clearance.
Source: The Small Intestine Converts Dietary Fructose into Glucose And Organic Acids
http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(17)30729-5
High doses of fructose (≥1 g/kg) overwhelm intestinal fructose absorption and clearance, resulting in fructose reaching both the liver and colonic microbiota.
- raypeat.com
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@sunsunsun Haidut has said that there is still starch content in HFCS if it hasn't been filtered properly and Ray has said it may be contaminated with heavy metals. https://bioenergetic.life/clips/75d75?t=1184&c=24
Judging by this, I think the only real issue with HFCS seems to be that it MIGHT be contaminated and I guess you don't really know for sure unless you have your own lab to test it.
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We will see. There's a lot of promises that never come to fruition.
But it would be great. This Mexicola is pricy where I live. -
@Milk-Destroyer haidut is referencing peat's assertion which I think has been proven to be based on a retracted study.
I looked up the mercury claims and it seems like the amounts in it are of no concern. That sounds like a reddit take but apparently normal drinking water has more than soda. This is from reddit:
"You give me a good enough meter and I'll find mercury in every single food (natural or otherwise) on the face of the planet. When fish has mercury levels in the PPM, I don't think you really need to worry about your soda having mercury in the PPT range. The difference between the mercury content in a can of tuna and the mercury content in a can of coke is 4 orders of magnitude. You would have to drink over 1000 cans of coke to get the same amount of mercury you'd get from a can of tuna."
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@LucH everything you said applies to sucrose
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Aren't they unbonded in HFCS, and maybe something enantiomer related with fructose compounds a distinct effect. I don't have a claim though, I'll drink an HFCS coke. Maybe hold the aspartame.
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@LucH said in Trump just convinced Coca-Cola to use real sugar in domestic Coke!:
Note: Fructose is taken up and metabolized almost entirely by the liver, when HD fructose comes in once, whereas the majority of an oral glucose load escapes the liver to be metabolized in peripheral tissues when required (physical expenditures).
2 birds, 1 abstract and inconvenient stone.
https://bioenergetic.forum/topic/2319/glucose-loading-cures-everything
https://bioenergetic.forum/topic/6764/what-s-the-consensus-on-vitamin-a-in-our-community -
Yeah apparently, for those who hadn’t heard, Ray said both types of Coke work metabolically. It’s just that taste-wise he preferred the Mexican one:
Post in thread 'Ray Peat Email Advice Depository'
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/ray-peat-email-advice-depository.1035/post-9714Q:Someone told me you drink HFCS coke regularly? do you think it is not
that harmful if someone is healthy?
A:I prefer Mexican coke with real sugar (it tastes very different), but metabolically there isn't much difference. -
I believe if it tastes better it is better. Taste is the bodies judge of nutritional quality.
