Vitamin K2 reverses fatty liver disease

dapose

1.5 mg k2 for the mouse, goodness what does that translate to 210 lb dude?

sunsunsun

when I eat natto my peepee smells

Mauritio

@dapose that was the HED

CrumblingCookie

@Mauritio said in Vitamin K2 reverses fatty liver disease:

If it was MK7 it's quite a high dose, but for MK4 it's a low dose. I suspect it was MK7 but not sure.

It was most certainly Mk-7. The authors exclusively refer to it several times.
Also they company from where they had sourced their K2 is all about Mk-7 (Sungen Bioscience Co., Ltd).

Mauritio

@CrumblingCookie ok thanks. I was hoping it was mk4 because that's what I'm using. But I think for mk4, a lot higher doses might be needed.
Back in the day haidut was talking about 20-40mgs ...

alfredoolivas

@Mauritio 100g of nato contains 850-1,000 micrograms of menaquinone 7. I think it's safe because I think people eat that much natto.

Mauritio

@alfredoolivas interesting thanks for sharing. Not sure ifd like to eat natto everyday though.

dapose

@alfredoolivas don’t forget about duck fat for k2.
Duck fat contains 3 times more vitamin K2 than ghee or egg yolks, 7 times more than butter or cream, and 13 times more than cheese or chicken liver. It ranks among the highest natural food sources of vitamin K2, second only to emu oil and goose liver pate.
Great in winter for roasting squashes and potatoes.

sunsunsun

@alfredoolivas natto also has nattokinase and 100g of natto on an otherwise empty stomach will get pharmacological levels of the enzyme into the blood. natto is also apparently a decent biotin and choline source.

a normal package is 40-45g and that's enough for me tbh. you can look for one with a sauce packet with decent ingredients.

the bacillus subtilis bacteria in it also produces its own antimicrobials.

it also contains spermidine.

risingfire

@dapose around 40 mgs of K2

Mauritio

@risingfire As I said, the dosage i gave was already the calculated HED. So 40mgs isn't necessary, especially if it's mk7!

Mossy

Would anyone happen to know why MK7 gives me heart palpitations, but MK4 does not? I forget the exact does of MK7; it was included within a vitamin D supplement, so probably not too high.

DavidPS

@Mossy said in Vitamin K2 reverses fatty liver disease:

Would anyone happen to know why MK7 gives me heart palpitations, but MK4 does not?

MK-7 is not an essential nutrient. What is essential is that you stop taking it if it gives you heart palpitations.

MK-7 has a half-life of around 70 hours. MK-4 has a half-life of around 4-6 hours. Researchers like the around-the-clock effects of the MK-7 form of K2. Adequate MK-4 is what we need in our diet.

https://minbalance.com/articles/K2-MK4-the-grass-fed-vitamin.html

Luke

@Mossy said in Vitamin K2 reverses fatty liver disease:

Would anyone happen to know why MK7 gives me heart palpitations, but MK4 does not? I forget the exact does of MK7; it was included within a vitamin D supplement, so probably not too high.

I don't know, but I get the same symptom from the MK7 form (plus headaches, even more insomnia). And we are not the only ones. It was a talking point on the raypeatforum as well and there are a few reddit threads about it.

Some guy on reddit said it was because Vitamin K depletes magnesium drastically (all the symptoms I had could be signs of magnesium deficiency). But I wonder why it's only the MK7 form that gives you, me and others problems. Maybe bcause it stays in the system way longer, like @davidps said. Perhaps MK4 would lead to the same symptons if you took it every few hours.

Mauritio

@Luke try having a lot of calcium and magnesium Before the vitamin K that helped me.

sunsunsun

@Mossy pretty sure it is sucking calcium out of blood and moving it to bone. take it with some calcium

Youtube Video

LucH

@Luke said in Vitamin K2 reverses fatty liver disease:

Maybe bcause it stays in the system way longer

Why the 1 mg MK4 / 1,000 IU D3 Ratio Wins
"Efficiency is not about the highest dose; it is about the saturability of the system. By combining 1 mg MK-4 with 1,000 IU D3, at the same take, supported by magnesium and Choline/Inositol, we maximize the carboxylation of bone proteins while sparing the liver's NADPH 'energy pool' and maintaining the endocrine benefits of osteocalcin."

Yes, you burn Mg and you lack cofactors.
I'd still add this warning for other readers:
Avoid the "Quinone Overload"
Taking pharmacological doses (like 45 mg or even 15 mg of MK-4) when not in an emergency (fracture) forces the liver into a "detox" mode. This consumes NADPH and Glutathione, which are better used for systemic repair. 1 mg MK4 is the "sweet spot" for maintenance.
And don't tell me about the Japanese study; I know. We're not talking about bone fracture nor osteoporosis. Only homeostasis, without overload!
=> Warning when taking 400 UI Mix toco, 15 mg / 15 000 mcg MK4, 5 000 UI D3 in 2 or 3 takes / total for a day.
=> It could enhance a "weakening" of the energy pool, when repeated.
Why?
• NADPH Depletion: The reduction of quinones and the action of CYP450 enzymes require NADPH. NADPH is the "currency" used for recycling glutathione and synthesizing fatty acids. If you over-consume it to process 15 mg of MK-4, you have less "antioxidant insurance" elsewhere.
• Glucuronic Acid & ATP: Conjugating metabolites to glucuronide requires UDP-glucuronic acid, a process that consumes glucose and ATP.
• Glutathione (GSH) Risk: If the high-dose quinones undergo "one-electron reduction," they can create semiquinone radicals. Neutralizing these radicals can lead to a direct drain on your Glutathione stores.

Mossy

@DavidPS Thank you. I was not aware of the vast difference in half-life. I appreciate the detail and link.

Mossy

@Luke Interesting to know that it's fairly common; also of the possible magnesium deficiency. My doses of MK4 have been much larger than MK7, and still no palpitations. Though, I do still feel bad on MK4 — as with just about all supplements.

Mossy

@Mauritio I do remember you mentioning this on another post, and I tried the calcium before MK4 — not to prevent palpitations, but just to have it not give me a bad reaction. It didn't work for me. Maybe it's needing to find the perfect ratio: calcium, magnesium, MK4, Vitamin D, Vitamin A, etc.

@sunsunsun Appreciate the video. It seems it's more than just calcium; at least for me.

Edit: thought it might help to highlight this quote from CM in the video:

"Getting calcium is more important than where it comes from."