Thyroid Therapy for Chronic Digestive Issues
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I'd like to arrive at a long-term T3:T4 dosage of about 1:3, but started with T3 monotherapy to test my responsiveness to thyroid in general. After confirming that I can tolerate it, my plan was to gradually add in T4 over several weeks (1:0, 1:1, 1:2, 1:3), until I reach a more sustainable combo-therapy dosage. While I read Barnes and agree with much of what he said, I diverted from his advice on this question of starting with combo- versus monotherapy, but I think his advice and yours hold in the long term.
I understand your approach. I know that it's nitpicky but by "several weeks" do you mean every two or three? I would see no issues with that, especially if you're considering either equal dosing(1.25gr as you're doing rn) or slightly modified(up or down) with more T4 to T3.
Would you advise switching immediately to 1:3 ratio, and at what dosage is advisable? Again, at this dosage I've only experienced the occasional episode of mild hyperthyroidism.
My best advice would be being around 1gr +/- 0.25gr. I don't see an issue with gradually moving towards 1:3 over several weeks. If you're getting an occasional hyper episode, then it's probably the low T4 converting quickly to T3, making your T3 doses larger than on paper.
As you recommend, I'll increase my intake of oysters and seafood to see if this improves, though it seems to improve by the day.
Awaiting your next update.
Greift nur hinein ins volle Menschenleben! Ein jeder lebt's, nicht vielen ist's bekannt, und wo ihr's packt, da ist's interessant.
Ray Peat first-ever interview(July 1987 on UofO Student Radio)
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Specificity in discussions like this is good! So far, I've changed my protocol every two weeks. I think this has given me ample time to adjust to the new ratio and dosage, and assess my body's response.
With your feedback in mind, the plan is to stick with gradually increasing the T4 dosage, pulling back if any protocol change suddenly leads to daily episodes of hyperthyroidism.
I'll continue to update this log with my progress.
Your advice is much appreciated!
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@CO3 said in Thyroid Therapy for Chronic Digestive Issues:
@banquos-ghost Look up what Ray had to say about iodine supplementation. Don't worry about supplementing it. If for some reason you want to, you can use iodized salt, but again, that has thyroid suppressive effects. The idea of using iodine to cure thyroid dysfunction is a woefully archaic thing, from when people in mountainous areas would develop goiters due to never getting any amount in their diet.
Good luck!
What Iodine sources do you have in your diet?
I stopped using iodised salt for years, resumed using it again after reading about its role in thyroid health.
We don’t need much iodine, but iodine deficiency can exist -
If you feel that two weeks allows you to feel changes(or at the very least, no negatives), then keep on keeping on.
I'll continue to update this log with my progress. Your advice is much appreciated!
Best of luck
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@GreekDemiGod said in Thyroid Therapy for Chronic Digestive Issues:
What Iodine sources do you have in your diet?
I eat seafood more than once a month. Done. All the iodine you need and then some.
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I would definitely consider trying thiamine B1. Potentially in high dose. It was the only thing to help my debilitating digestion and it helped near instantly after years of suffering. It could be worth a try
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@bubble Last year I tried very high dose thiamine HCl (3g+/day) to no effect. On this forum and Twitter I've read many success stories, but it proved ineffective for my condition.
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@CO3 Yep this is called the Wolf-Chaikoff effect.
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@banquos-ghost I've gone high thiamine HCL and subutiamine too with little effects. I want to try one of the other forms.
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Update #3 on thyroid therapy:
I'm staying at 25 mcg T3 and 50 mcg T4 for now, as work and family activities are too overwhelming this week to worry about adjusting the dosage and monitoring my response.
In Update #4, I'll provide a more comprehensive overview of my experience so far. For this one, I only wanted to share recent endocrine bloodwork results after about 6 weeks of T3/T4 combination therapy (all previous bloodwork data are in this thread):
- TSH: 0.456 uIU/mL (Ref: 0.450-4.500)
- T4, Free: 0.98 ng/dL (Ref: 0.82-1.77)
- T3, Free: 4 pg/mL (Ref: 2-4.4)
- Cholesterol, Total: 197 mg/dL (Ref: 100-199)
- HDL Cholesterol: 55 mg/dL (Ref: >39)
- LDL Chol Calc : 133 mg/dL (Ref: 0-99)
- Dihydrotestosterone: 51 ng/dL (Ref: 30-85)
- DHT, Free: 3.21 pg/mL (Ref: 2.30-11.60)
- FSH: 1.2 mIU/mL (Ref: 1.5-12.4)
- Testosterone: 748 ng/dL (Ref: 264-916)
- Free Testosterone (Direct): 221 ng/mL (Ref: 109-353)
- DHEA-Sulfate, Prolactin, Estradiol, and LH were all in range
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@banquos-ghost see my post in the other thread. Your T4:T3 ratio of 2:1 is way too low and it’s what causing the low ft4. You have to add more T4 and lower T3.
How do you feel with the current blood tests? -
Update #4 on thyroid therapy:
- Protocol at 25 mcgs T3 / 50 mcgs T4, taking T3/T4 in morning and evening, only T3 during the day.
- Sleep has improved tremendously. For the first time in well over a decade, I can sleep soundly through the night, for 6-8 hours, without waking to urinate. As a result, I'm not as fatigued as I was before treatment.
- BBT is consistently at or above 97.8 degrees Fahrenheit, unless experiencing an hypothermic adrenaline spike from digestive issues
- PR is at 70-80 BPM and stable, unless (again) experiencing adrenaline issues.
- Lightheadedness and fainting are gone. I can now stand up without reaching for the wall to stabilize myself.
- Mood has improved dramatically. Ambition and drive has been mostly restored, which were all but gone before treatment.
- Appetite is much higher. On most days I can eat enough to satiate it without exacerbating digestive issues.
- Gyno was transient. Maybe once a week I'll notice slight nipple tenderness. At this frequency, it's not concerning.
- I'm pleased with the bloodwork results I pasted earlier.
As you may gather from the above, thyroid therapy has been a success; in almost all areas it could directly improve my health, it has. However, I think it has taken me about as far as it can. No changes have been observed in my digestive health. All digestive symptoms I dealt with at the start—severe bloating, indigestion, oral thrush, stool biofilm, cognitive impairment—still persist. I think that thyroid can only do much on its own to resolve chronic intestinal overgrowths, or whatever it is I'm dealing with.
That is not to say that I'll discontinue treatment; in fact, I see no reason at all to discontinue, as I've not experienced any real side effects. Instead, I'll likely continue at this dosage for the foreseeable future. I hope that being euthyroidic will improve my immune system resilience as I begin another self-treatment protocol for these digestive issues. I'm very satisfied with this experience over the last three months, and grateful for the insights you all have provided.
I'll update the forum either in this thread or another with the progress I make on resolving my other issues.
@GreekDemiGod Per my above comments, I feel that thyroid treatment has taken me as far as it can. Despite the low fT4, I feel mostly euthyroidic at this dosage and frequency.
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@banquos-ghost Have you done more recent blood work?
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@GreekDemiGod The plan is to retest thyroid levels (fT3, fT4, TSH) every couple months. I'll continue to post those results here.
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@JulofEnoch
I agree with you regarding the one-month trial for thyroid change. I am slowly getting my thyroid dialed in and my eyebrows are slowly growing back. But I wait for a full month before decided on changes in dosage.FYI: I am taking 50mcg Levothyroxine daily (at midnight), plus 3 drops Tyronene in AM, dessicated thyroid in the afternoon and 2 drops Tyronene at 4-5PM. (I have no thyroid.)
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@banquos-ghost I noticed the same. So far coconut oil, sauteed mushrooms, Lapodin, and Kuinone have done the most for me digestively. Also, B6. In this order. This is on top of taking thyroid daily.
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@onliest said in Thyroid Therapy for Chronic Digestive Issues:
I've gone high thiamine HCL and subutiamine too with little effects. I want to try one of the other forms.
You won't reach passive absorption with High dose thiamine HCL. a combo between HCL and PLP, progressively and with staples are needed.
See Allil overtone for more information or I can give a link (with my summary) if someone finds it easier to understand / or have no time / no energy enough to spend
How to Apply High-Dose Thiamine Protocols in Clinical Practice: Part 2
Practical Guidance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZUzS_xP9A
EONutrition – Elliot OVERTON (nutritionist) (Video multiplex) -
tried digestive bitters?
I am not sure why thyroid hormone would magically solve digestion
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@wester130 said in Thyroid Therapy for Chronic Digestive Issues:
I am not sure why thyroid hormone would magically solve digestion
Not magically but indirectly.
If nutrients are required for digestive enzymes (poor and long-lasting digestion), leaving metabolic enzymes not sufficient, from one hand, and if you suffer from low-grade inflammation, on the other hand (arthrosis or gluten 3 times a day which has an impact on zonulin and the tight junctions of the intestines) you can’t optimize the communication from the HPA axis and the central operator for energy (thyroid).
B6 is stolen with low-grade inflammation. B1 is stolen with rice and bread. Not enough. Energy metabolism requires appropriate levels of several B-vitamins. Not only.
So poor digestion impacts the energy level, directly and indirectly. Stress level too.
I can give a link for B1 and B6, in connection with the brain, if desired.
Expressed differently: Interconnection between the brain and the stomach, through steroid hormones.
Not directly but indirectly.Additional info for the other readers:
Test for steroid hormone :- adrenal: HPA axis + rt3 FT3 FT4
- sex hormones: testosterone, estrogen, cortisol
Why is cortisol needed for other hormones to work properly? For some effects (e.g. libido, energy levels, thermoregulation) adequate levels of not just one but multiple or even all of the major hormones are needed.
Cortisol and thyroid hormones determine our energy levels
How much “energy” a person has, is to a large extent determined by someone’s levels of thyroid and adrenal hormones. Whereas thyroid hormones set the “idle” state for our system (i.e. the state of how much “background”-energy someone has), levels of cortisol are the “gas pedal” (i.e. they are one of the most important factors that determine moment-to-moment energy levels and wakefulness).
However, in order for thyroid hormones to exert their effects properly, adequate levels of cortisol are needed — and vice versa. Therefore, both hormones are needed in adequate levels for each other to work as they should and whenever one of these hormones is low, energy levels will be as well. In fact, replacement of thyroid hormones and/or adrenal hormones are often enough to “give people their life back”.
PS: And I haven't yet talked about the microbiota
70 % of our immune system. -
Below are some thoughts on recent changes to my treatment protocol:
- Thyroid dosage remains at half cynoplus and half cynomel tablet nibbled throughout the day, with the occassional quarter or eighth cynomel tablet added after my afternoon snack depending on pulse and temperature. Latest thyroid blood panel results are nearly identical to the last panel I pasted in this thread, and so are not worth repasting
- Adrenal overactivity, which previously caused cold feet and contributed to gastrointestinal issues, seems to have resolved after removing caffeine from my diet. As an unexpected result, my chronic pelvic soreness, while not entirely reduced, has improved somewhat. Effects of thyroid medication do also seem more potent after removing caffeine. Some ideas for why this might be are that improved adrenal function potentiates the effect of thyroid hormone (think of the synergistic effects of cortisol and thyroid when in proper ratio) or that my metabolism was burning too hot, causing an energy deficiency and preventing the thyroid meds from having their full effect
- All glutenous carbs have been removed from my diet. After doing a short elimination diet, I've determined that even sourdough bread, home-baked and well-fermented, now provokes an autoimmune response. Otherwise, diet now consists almost entirely of fruit, milk, eggs, and meat
- One rounded tablespoon of baking soda before bed has, after only a week, resulted in some improvement to gastrointestinal issues. It has reliably increased transit speed and seems, I think, to be causing more fungal biofilm elements to be excreted in stool. More time required to assess true efficacy
- Recent experiments supplementing with moderate to high dosages of calcium carbonate (1-2g), potassium gluconate (500-800mg), methylene blue (5-15mg), ox bile, prescription digestive enzymes, berberine, grade seed extract, bromelain, and L-glutamine have not resulted in any meaningful symptom improvement
- I'm considering retrying high-dose allicin. The last time I did this, I experienced significant symptom relief, albeit temporarily, when taken with each meal. The benefits of allicin supplementation may have been curbed when I (quite stupidly) started taking bismuth subsalicylate before meals, which binds to and neutralizes intestinal sulfur (forming the black chemical compound bismuth sulfide), and which likely negated the antifungal effects of the allicin. Sometimes the results of our self-experiments only make sense in retrospect, and only after several months of brooding on why they were successful
All in all, nothing too significant to report back on; my digestive symptoms persist, with minor improvements here and there. I'm beginning a new business venture next month, so I'm hoping to see some more improvement before then; but if not, I'll continue researching, experimenting, and working hard to regain my health.
Cheers to all of you; I hope the summer sun has kept you warm and energized.
