Does anyone take a multivitamin? What to look for in it?

SpaceManJim

For convenience and to get away from swallowing 10+ pills everyday which may or may not be necessary... I'm wondering about multivitamins.

Are they useful to support good health and give nutrients from a Peat-inspired perspective?

I've seen long-term studies (observation I guess, so grain of salt) saying no benefits.

One positive factor is that they seem to have a lot of things in lower doses, something Peat generally endorsed. For example, I read he'd only recommend in the 10s of milligrams of B vitamins (i.e. not these crazy B50 or B100 formulations), and up to 2K IU vitamin D (multis tend to have 400-800 IU from what I'm seeing, so a decent supplement to some somelight).

What say you, any multivitamin takers here? Recommended brands? Fillers/additives/ingredients to watch out for?

Serotoninskeptic

@SpaceManJim Multivitamins are not a good idea. Will cause more problems than good. Get nutrients from food instead

SpaceManJim

@Serotoninskeptic Can you expand on that?

People from the old RP Forum take all kinds of supplements (check out Haidut's store for instance). Why would a multivitamin be worse than taking XYZ other supplement?

BioEclectic

Multi's are useful for a couple of things beyond bare maintenance. They sometimes have certain vitamins minerals that a person can be deficient in including the less common ones like Manganese etc etc. If a person truly experiences some improvement after a week's dose then they can begin troubleshooting and narrowing down what they were deficient in most. It would probably eventually require them purchasing it seperately though.

Multi's tend to be pretty low quality and with much processing involved. I wouldn't take them too often. You're much better off getting the bulk of your nutrition from food along with assistance from chronometer.

mexican_coke_fan

@Serotoninskeptic Peat talks about this, the risk is the excipients and the purity of the actual vitamins that are chemically extracted. There's no way to really know if a vitamin is 100% pure.

This is why he thinks weekly liver and oysters should be enough for one's nutritional needs.

LucH

Multi vitamin & trace element supplementation useful ?
Adequate intake of certain nutrients is associated with a reduction in all-cause mortality when the nutrient source is foods, but not supplements, according to a new study.
Source:
The benefits and harms of dietary supplements
https://nutrition.tufts.edu/news/nutrients-food-not-supplements
Fang Fang Zhang, M.D., Ph.D at Tufts University. 2019
*) What you won’t have

No place enough for useful trace elements like Mg or K.
At least minimum 2 tocopherols (only one: alpha) (vitamin E)
You need the right fats to absorb the benefits of fat-soluble vitamins (A D E K).
The right type of all vitamins if you don’t make a sharp search (cofactors or bioavailable)
*) What you should avoid
B-50 complex. Not the appropriate dosage (cancer risk). Ok for RDA or 2x/wk.
Mn, Fe (interaction, pro-oxidant)
Fillers such Polysorbate 80 (microbiote), titan dioxide (nanoparticules => brain), magnesium stearate (if digestion problems), acacia gum (microbiote), silica. The less additives possible.
Excess ingredient: 400 mcg folic acid.
Excess niacin (20-25 mg B3 is ok ; often 50 mg => Mind the kind. Ok for niacinamide / nicotinamide).
Excess B6 if brain sensitive (20-25 mg B6 PLP is OK)
Etc.
*) Monitor copper intake if taking non-stop vitamin B complex, if your intake is low or if you take a zinc supplement (same carrier). 1.5 mg Cu as RDA or 8-10 mg Zn.
Vitamins that are considered antagonistic to copper are shown in figure below [vitamin B6, A, C, B3, and B5]. Excessive intake of any one or combination of these vitamins can contribute to or exacerbate an existing copper deficiency."
The Nutritional Relationships of Copper | David Watts
https://www.traceelements.com/Docs
*) What I would do when taking a supplement
B vitamins generally act synergistically. The other B vitamins – other than B1, B2 and B3 – will therefore also be present but just to avoid a deficiency. And the B9 and B12? Joker, at this stage (we haven't forgotten them).

*) What I would mind:

Too much of a good thing is bad.

In cure it would be probably beneficial. Or not every day if you know what to avoid. But I’ve seen so much people believing doing well while it was not appropriate.
In times of uncertainty, doing nothing will be more profitable. Or we limit ourselves to obvious deficiencies when there is a deficit in menus. Knowing that it will always be better to choose a food rather than a supplement.
*) Useful links
*) Toxicité des excipients dans les compléments alimentaires
Contenu et excipients de la Vitamine B complexe : Analyse des produits USA :
http://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t845-dioxyde-de-titane#14314
*) Study led by Dr. Francis Collins. 2019
The researchers found the use of dietary supplements had no influence on mortality. People with adequate intake of vitamin A, vitamin K, magnesium, zinc, and copper were less likely to die. However, that relationship only held for nutrient intake from food consumption.
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2019/04/16/study-finds-no-benefit-for-dietary-supplements/
Note’s editor:

There are biases in the study. E.g. the take of a high supplement Ca (1 000 mg).
I do take supplement but I’ve made researches to avoid interaction and counterproductive behavior.
Out of context: I was declared at high risk last weekend for prostate cancer because I’m 71, don’t eat tomato 4x/wk and don’t exercise enough. So don’t follow blindly one source. Cross-check the information and do cures rather than taking a lot of supplements. A bit contradictory, I know. Too long to explain why here.
If you make a search, you’ll have to be able to separate the true from the false and are able to make a synthesis when the sources are apparently contradictory, not to mention the studies in which the conclusion does not reflect the findings established above in the body of the study (conclusion oriented or who advocates more research).

BioEclectic

@LucH
interesting note about the B50 complex. I recall you mentioning before but i don't recall the backup detail (?) That potentially harmful?

I know certain aspects about typical B50's are not ideal, Folic acid, excipients etc etc.

I ask because i now take 1/4 once or twice a day, approx 5 days a week, along with separates. And i've recommended small split dose B50 to friends who are normally pill averse.

And thank you again as your info is invaluable for fine tuning supplement use. Your standard Niacin dose is noted too by the way, less is more!

LucH

@BioEclectic said in Does anyone take a multivitamin? What to look for in it?:

interesting note about the B50 complex. I recall you mentioning before but i don't recall the backup detail (?) That potentially harmful?

AMPK sensor: Friend or foe?
@BioEclectic
Starting point: Too much of a good thing can become counterproductive (cancer).
BioEclectic, a forum user on bioenergetic.com, recently asked me why it was not appropriate to regularly take a complex Vitamin B50 supplement. OK if it's 2x/week or these are the RDA if taken regularly, knowing that we will then have chosen a co-enzymated form (with cofactors), without yuck ingredients. (…)
Short answer:
AMPK functions as an energy sensor in our cells. This sensor plays a key role in the balance between anabolic and catabolic programs for cellular homeostasis in response to metabolic stress.
In the case of a tumor, the cancer cell attempts to slow down oxidative metabolism and works to divert the supply of glucose for its own benefit in order to grow. The cancer cell will therefore try to down-regulate the influence of AMPK, which acts a little too much like a traffic agent to supply the different organs, instead of promoting the flow of fuel to the advantage of his own needs.
So, what the link with cancer?
Taking high dose of thiamin (B1) or pyridoxine PLP (B6) – they are just 2 examples of antioxidant – they act to moderate the AMPK sensor, to dampen the effects. Right in cure or if the dose turns round RDA but not for prolonged use.
Reactive oxygen species (ROS) are continuously produced as a by-product of mitochondrial metabolism and eliminated via antioxidant systems.
Cancer cells try to moderate / neutralize anti-stress.

Full answer on my forum, with link in English and in French (translator needed).

Cancer cells are usual, at a certain age, and have to be considered “normal” if the size does not exceed a €2 coin…
AMPK as a regulator of energy metabolism
How much B vitamins do we need, in which proportions?
How can we modulate the sensitivity of the regulation?
Cancer cells divert the supply of fuel and try to avoid oxidative stress.
What’s the link between B1 and cancer growth?
Targeting the AMP-Activated Protein Kinase for Cancer purpose?