Experiments with transdermal hormones
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@alfredoolivas i agree
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I've finally gotten around to trying T in 95% alcohol + IPM. Started with 50mg T. I'll check in later if I notice anything.
Only thing different so far vs. DMSO is that I don't notice any crystals on my skin after drying, and of course none of the nasty DMSO smell. So I think that's a good start.
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Looks like 70% alcohol + 30% IPM doesn't allow for T to penetrate the skin in my case. Same as DMSO. It also dries incredibly fast (within seconds). I could try throwing some MCT oil in there to prevent the quick drying but I doubt it would make a difference for penetration.
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@Crypt-Keeper It's probably the concentrations you use in DMSO; I use 5% DHT in DMSO (50 mg DHT per ml of DMSO), and it absorbs perfectly fine, no crystals. T seems to be a lot less soluble in DMSO than it is in ethanol
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@alfredoolivas I've tried the following:
- 50mg DHT / ml DMSO
- 100mg T / ml DMSO
- 100mg T / ml 95% alcohol
Both DMSO solutions leave visible crystals / white residue on the skin after drying. The alcohol solution didn't have any visible crystals on the skin after drying, but there is residue on my dark-colored undershirt.
In all cases the solutions were completely clear (no crystals) in the dropper bottle, so I think they're being dissolved well.
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Okay, either DMSO doesn't work well or DMSO solutions are hard to heat up to the point where you can dissolve the hormones. Either way, this is a valuable lesson. Thanks for sharing.
Here is my method if you are interesteed: I put 1500mg of DHT inside a 30ml Idealabs dropper bottle, and using a funnel, I put 33 grams (30 ml) of DMSO inside the bottle too. I simply heat up the bottle for 12 seconds using a 1000W microwave, and it comes out maybe 60-70 degrees celsius and perfectly dissolved; I shine my light from the phone, through the bottom of the bottle, and if you look down the neck of the bottle, into the liquid, the light illuminates any undissolved particles if there are any.
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It’s better to use a glass bottle so that the presence of crystals can be more easily confirmed
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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Thoughts on this?
https://x.com/BowTiedUM/status/1879899814756053406
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@jamezb46 That's true, but I don't think it matters if you shine light through the bottom of the bottle.
I use a glass bottle when brewing my testosterone enanthate dissolved in benzyl benzoate and olive oil. However, some small undissolved particles are microscopic particles rather than crystals and, therefore, are invisible to the naked eye; light must be shone directly on the glass to reveal these undissolved particles in the solution.
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@Kilgore It's just hype. In reality, there is no golden bullet when it comes to androgenic anabolic steroids; virtually every androgenic anabolic steroid will create these effects if you take a high enough dose, diet and train hard.
A select few accounts are currently hyping DHT esters up; DHT esters aren't even available on the market, and if there are any available, they certainly don't have a certificate of analysis, proving that it is DHT in the product.
For all we know, this "DHT" people are being sold could be another steroid like trenbolone, which also has profound effects; but really any anabolic androgenic steroid apart from those that cause water retention, could be in these DHT ester products, and easily replicate the effects of DHT.
If I see some studies on DHT propionate or enanthate, that shows it has unique properties compared to other steroids, I may change my opinion, but as I see it, this is anecdotally driven hype.
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@alfredoolivas Not hype. There's a reason DHT and its esters are the most gatekept steroids/androgens. It is as anabolic as tren mg per mg.
These few accounts that are promoting DHT esters just have a source/mutual that makes DHT E and DHT P. It's not hard to esterify DHT base if you have some organic chemistry knowledge.
DHT enanthate has been studied and is an approved treatment for gyno. Part of why these transformations seem extreme is because the recomposition effect of DHT is actually that impressive, it literally "deletes" fat from estrogenic regions.
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@alfredoolivas Not hype. There's a reason DHT and its esters are the most gatekept steroids/androgens. It is as anabolic as tren mg per mg.
Completely untrue; skeletal muscle expresses high concentrations of 3a-HSD the enzyme that deactivates DHT, which causes DHT to be deactivated in skeletal muscle and therefore express very little androgenic or anabolic effects in muscle tissue.
Whereas, trenbolone can't be metabolised by 3a-HSD in muscle tissues, allowing it to bind to muscle cell androgen receptors, without being metabolised.
Furthermore, trenbolone has an equal affinity to the unmetabolised DHT to the androgen receptor; it also directly binds to and antagonises the glucocorticoid receptor, which DHT cannot do.
So even if DHT was not metabolised by 3a-HSD in skeletal muscle, it would not be more anabolic than trenbolone.Therefore, this statement is incredibly untrue.
DHT enanthate has been studied and is an approved treatment for gyno. Part of why these transformations seem extreme is because the recomposition effect of DHT is actually that impressive, it literally "deletes" fat from estrogenic regions.
Anti-estrogenic ≠ equal fat loss
Anti-prolactin ≠ equal fat lossIf a substance being anti-estrogenic would induce fat loss, then exemestane would be the ultimate weight loss drug; but in fact, this is not the case at all.
Estrogen actually causes weight loss. Unlike the pro-DHT activists, I can actually show studies that firstly;
1.) Estrogen provides to the anti-obesity effects of androgens
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0031938479900453
"Treatment of castrated male rats with low doses of testosterone propionate (TP; 0.2 mg/day) increases food intake and body weight gain, but long-term treatment with a higher dose of TP (1 mg/day) reduces body weight gain and carcass fat content. Concurrent treatment with androsta-1,4,6-triene-3, 17-dione (ATD), which blocks the aromatization of androgens to estrogens, prevents the weight-reducing effects of high doses of TP. "
https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/162/6/bqab045/6155679
"Testosterone Reduces Body Fat in Male Mice by Stimulation of Physical Activity Via Extrahypothalamic ERα Signaling...Testosterone but not dihydrotestosterone decreases fat mass in obese hypogonadal male mice
2.) DHT is fattening itself
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16741268/"DHT treatment resulted in obesity, associated with reduced energy expenditure and fat oxidation. "
@pannacottas I am not claiming that DHT is fattening; I am simply claiming that alongside basically any other androgen, DHT is not the golden bullet for burning fat.
Your claims could simply be proven by providing studies that back these claims; if you have any, please share.
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@alfredoolivas DHT e or p will be infinitely safer than tren.
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@risingfire any bioidentical androgen (T, DHT, DHEA and androsterone) is safer than tren.
I was just saying that tren is an effective anabolic agent and out of all the androgens it induces the most fat loss (although androgens do not induce much fat loss by themselves).
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@wester130 Have you seen the COA.... look at the font differences, the low resolution of the document but the high resolution of the text and the misalignment of the text. Someone has clearly edited it, in order to fake the COA for this "DHT heptanoate"
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There is no commercially produced DHT enanthate apparently
https://x.com/solothesensei/status/1877098369144992063
The AlphaGel guy might be looking to source/produce it though.
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@gloryus AlphaGels claims to sell a DHT gel at concentrations that simply don’t make sense chemically. They state their gel contains 200mg of DHT per ml in an ethanol-based solution with carbomer and isopropyl myristate for consistency.
However, the science doesn’t add up. DHT only dissolves in ethanol at a maximum of 50mg per ml, so achieving a concentration four times higher than that is impossible. To put this in perspective, pharmaceutical DHT gels like Andactrim contain just 25mg of DHT per ml, while testosterone gels such as Androgel only manage 16.2mg per ml. These numbers reflect the natural limits of how much androgen can dissolve in an ethanol-based gel.
Given this, AlphaGels’ claims seem highly questionable. Without clear evidence or independent lab tests to back their formulation, it’s hard to take their product seriously. As a rule of thumb, be vary suspicious of underground steroid labs.
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I still can't get a good explanation for what good effect people think exogeneous DHT has. A large, large portion of it is converted into estrogens 3α-androstanediol and 3β-androstanediol, which bind to both ERα and ERβ, to the latter with better affinity, and does not bind to androgen receptors. The enzymes that convert DHT to these hormones are 3α-HSD and 3β-HSD and are abundant in the liver, skin, muscle and brain and are metabolizing all of that DHT you're putting into your blood. In the brain, 3α-androstanediol is responsible for the pro-GABA effects and 3β-androstanediol for the anxiolytic effects and also the regulation of hormone production through (the suppression of) the HPTA.
If you want DHT's effects in the muscle you need to take something artificial that can't be 3β-HSD reduced, like anavar.
Otherwise, with DHT being a paracrine hormone in tissues where it has an important effect, it seems better to supplement with the pro-hormone (T) and support 5α-reductase production.
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I have the patent for DHT valerate synthesis. Maybe I’ll source stanolone from PPL and add the ester myself.
