Immune system support post chemotherapy?
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@LucH thanks for sharing. No doubt this is an effective alternative when using chemo…
Not to be a snob, but that convinces me to never advise chemo lol. -
@LucH Do you know if it is ok to take TUDCA during chemo? I have to start chemo (breast cancer) in a week and I wonder what could I take to help the liver and minimize the harm
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@elle_em said in Immune system support post chemotherapy?:
Do you know if it is ok to take TUDCA during chemo?
Not advised because it has anti-apoptosis effects. It would counter-acts the effects of chemo.
I'd have charcoal and / or superfine green clay when coming back home, to amalgam the circulating rubbish liquid. But when in the blood, we need something more to capture the toxins. Broccoli soup e.g. (thiol groups).I' d take iodine before the treatment to minimize the size of the angioma.
Begin very low: 150 mcg caps 3/4 days minimum. Iodorate afterwards 12.5 and 50 mg (50 000 mcg). The thyroid needs time to adapt (12.5 and 50 mg). NIS symporters (kind of Na/I pump) need to get awoken progressively or you'll get an over-reaction / protection.
I know there is a warning from big pharma and people who don't know much about the needs and the supposed dangers (...).
I'd read the book of Lynne Farrow or have a look at my forum. Best to read the book first to lower anxiety (witnesses).- Book: The Iodine Crisis. Lynne Farrow. 2013
- Afterwards, join a group for info and help.
Forums en ligne sur l’iode, mentionnés par Lynne Farrow
- Iodine Facebook Group (point de départ : le protocole de l’iode + livre de Lynne Farrow)
- Iodine Research Group (section de recherche) (animé par Lynne Razaitis)
=> www.facebook.com/groups/IodineWorkshop - Curezone iodine (fondateurs Laura et Steve).
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@elle_em
To optimize bile I'd take betaine HCL+ pepsin, possibly with fennel (protection) and ginger (bloating). Now foods.
I take Kelp 150 mcg caps Now foods.
Lugol or iodorate for KI and I3. Both forms are required.
Lugol 1 % solution to reach 10 mg dose = 20 drops in water (Ask for confirmation).
Note 1: I won't take iodine 48H hours before chemo since iodine has an anti-inflammatory action too.
Note 2: the druggist is going to warn you. Too high level of iodine. Big pharma has struck again
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@LucH tanks a lot for the immediate answer. Is it ok to take iodine in case one is in hypofunction of the thyroid (or at least I think I am with all the symptoms)?
I think will buy this for the liver (according with your phytotherapy advise) -
Do you think it's ok?And maybe this one to start before chemo? -
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@LucH I have this one - betaine HCL+ pepsin
Will buy Kelp 150 mcg caps Now foods and Lugol (if confirmed) -
@elle_em said in Immune system support post chemotherapy?:
And maybe this one to start before chemo? -
Yes ok. Fine. No need to stop with desmodium, sillymarin and artischoke. I won't take it just before (the day you get chemo). Take if after (in a shake, low amount to avoid repulse).
Best to take it in cure: so 3 - 4 days before and 1 week after. -
@elle_em said in Immune system support post chemotherapy?:
Will buy Kelp 150 mcg caps Now foods and Lugol (if confirmed)
We need selenium before taking iodine.
Obliged if you're hypo.
100 mcg 2x /day at the very beginning and 2-3 days after chemo. 100 mcg the other days.
Most of the time, 95 % don't react badly when taking iodine, except whenever they don't listen to the advise for progressivity. You have to sensibilize / open the NIS symporters / pumps.
The brain needs to register you're changing the mode. TSH needs 10-15 days to adapt the level. Don't trust the blood levels but your feeling.
I repeat:
150 mcg, then 300 mcg.
12.5 mg 2 weeks
if you feel OK, 50 mg.
Stop 4 weeks if problems. And begin again. mind progressivity.
Note: you could undergo a healing crisis if you've eaten bread with bromine.
Halogens (Cl Fl Br) are going to be unloaded when present. -
@LucH Thank you very much
I will summarize in case I have missed something. I am absolutely new here. I haven't got much time to get all the knowledge i wanted to. I thought I have time to learn and then try to repair my thyroid and bile. But with this diagnose I am terrified and I should quickly prepare a plan as the chemo starts in 7 days.
(one more question - I received an advice from friend to start taking thyroid hormone T3 and T4. Should I or the selenium and iodine are ok?)
The plan:- Star taking mariendistel desmodium, sillymarin and artischoke - every day (except the chemo day - after chemo with shake)
- buy some kind of selenium and take it like that - 100 mcg 2x /day at the very beginning and 2-3 days after chemo. 100 mcg the other days
- Iodine - sorry but I couldn't get what kind should I take - kelp or just iodine, or both
I start with 150 mcg caps (1 per day) 3/4 days minimum, then a few days with 300mcg and after that?
and stop it 48 hours before chemo - daily take betaine HCL+ pepsin
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@elle_em said in Immune system support post chemotherapy?:
Should I or the selenium and iodine are ok?)
I won't do that at first side.
You can't handle without the useful nutrient: First Se, then I.
You need a medical practitioner to answer your question (endocrinologist), but as the time to get a rendezvous is huge, you'll have to ask your family doctor.
To set the posology he's going to ask for TSH (blood test). Not enough. fT3 and T4 are required. Not only T3, but fT3 (free T3).
When supplementing with T3 and T4, a delay 10-15 days is required to adjust the posology, to feel alright.
To analyze the situation correctly, no interference has to be seen between iodine and hormone supplement.
I'll wait for T3 T4. Not now, not during the adaptation period (liver overburdened).
Priority has to be given to the liver and how to get rid of toxins.
you'll need cofactors to help, like vit C, magnesium bisgycinate, Vit D. to optimize energy and metabolism.
As you'll feel saturated and will try to avoid meat and fat, a shake with protein will be required if you don't want to see your bones (caricature).
=> Soup (with meat mixed) and shake with supplement. -
So:
Protect your liver and try to get rid of the toxins.- desmodium & cie + Se (no selenium 2-3 days before chemo)
- iodine 150 mcg. but not just before chemo (48H)
- Chemo
- Take care of the liver and get rid of toxins.
- take shake with supplement and iodine again 2-3 days after chemo if possible.
- See how you react when taking 12.5 mg iodine. iodorate 12.5 mg.
- If OK, 50 mg iodorate (or lugol 1%).
- Begin T3 T4 supplementation, very progressively, with 2 weeks interval when changing. If you overload, you stop immediately for 4 weeks, before going back 2 staples back. not just the last one, but 2 or 3 staples back.
Note: you probably need Betaine HCl (once a day at midday if you eat a solid meal). This is to help bile secretion, to optimize / make it easier for fat digestion.
I think, you'll need much more help:
- Mint and ginger when bloating.
- an extra dose of enzymes. mainly fat enzymes (lipase) but not only.
I know enzymedica lipogold well.
Note; Mind the kind of vitamin C. Need the Scottish label.
https://be.iherb.com/pr/doctor-s-best-pure-vitamin-c-powder-with-q-c-8-8-oz-250-g/54796?srsltid=AfmBOop6eOX01FCOcFchsY2Iyb3lgOj_vqMikKOBZowErqzljDy8UKHW
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@elle_em I hope all goes well for you. I'd like to express my sympathy, and I wish you good luck and a full recovery. I wish I could help more but I don't know much about cancer and chemo.
But I see you are being advised to take iodine. Please also look into the possible harms of iodine excess so that you can make an informed decision.
The inspiration for this forum, Ray Peat, was opposed to high dose iodine supplementation. He referred to high dose iodine as "very toxic," promoted by a cult of "crazies."
No offense intended, Luch, but I have to say it. I know you mean well too, but I don't want to see someone harmed.
Resources about the harms of iodine excess:
"I was seeing new patients almost weekly who developed thyroid disease after attempting high dose iodine." - from:
https://www.drchristianson.com/blog/the-iodine-controversy/This article tries to explain both sides of the iodine debate:
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-diseases/the-great-iodine-debate/#gsc.tab=0Info about iodine excess that I've collected:
https://bioenergetic.forum/topic/3927/iodine-too-muchI know it's hard to be getting all kinds of conflicting advice during a stressful time. Again, I wish you good luck.
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Thymalin or thymosin alpha
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@Insr said in Immune system support post chemotherapy?:
"I was seeing new patients almost weekly who developed thyroid disease after attempting high dose iodine." - from:
https://www.drchristianson.com/blog/the-iodine-controversy/I know you want to do well.
Let's take the 1st source:- huge amount of iodine => Too much of a good thing is bad. Transient effect.
- Hashimoto without selenium to protect against immune reaction. a low dosage required.
=> The sources I give are from medical practitioners, with a high reputation, not like the ones I saw ...
*) Do you suffer from iodophobia ?
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2092-souffrez-vous-diodophobie#30093*) Report of a discussion on Bioenergetic.com forum where I was asked to give a piece of advice.
GRay asked my advice on this video from Mercola
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R085kZw3YBQ
Mercola/Strong Sista and Alan Christianson on excess Iodine
Here is my answer on the forum bioenergetics.com forum
https://bioenergetic.forum/topic/3795/mercola-strong-sista-and-alan-christianson-on-excess-iodine/3?_=1740594928529
In context
Iodophobia was almost born with the publication of a study by Wolff-Chaikow in 1948. In short, “the thyroid protects itself against an acute excess of iodine by suppressing the metabolism of iodine. » This is a transitory effect. The simple fact of providing iodine in supra-nutritional quantities to a subject regularly increases his TSH, sometimes to double digits for a period of several months, to spontaneously return to commonly accepted norms afterwards, and this, in a perfectly spontaneous manner. Dr. Vincent Reliquet.
Analysis on the link on bioenergetics.com
