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    Adamantyl Ester Steroids: The Ultimate Androgen?

    Literature Review
    adamantane androsterone dht steroids bodybuilding
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    • D
      davedavidson
      last edited by davedavidson

      Oof okay, DHT’s 3-keto can’t be esterified without reducing it, and thatd just tank its activity, I kno im retarded but the responses here are just dogmatic lecturing “take your test and shut up.” It’s condescending and kills any real discussion. I’m not trying to just follow the same old path everyone’s been on since the 50s.where’s the progress?? if you’re not open to exploring new ideas why even engage??

      alfredoolivasA 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • alfredoolivasA
        alfredoolivas @davedavidson
        last edited by alfredoolivas

        @davedavidson it was a joke, sorry I thought the “:)”made it obvious.

        You aren’t retarded at all, I didn’t paint you out to seem that way. I just thought you were a little to optimistic about a steroid that was popularised by Haidut, the master of conjecture.

        It's quite personal to me because I too went down the rabbit hole of listening to Haidut's conjecture... buying all the overpriced Idea Labs products, applying hundreds of milligrams of DHT and pregnenolone on my body to create the optimal "anti-catabolic steroid", listening to his weight loss advice etc... it left me with a massive hole in my wallet and fatter.

        This is why I ravantly encourage people to present their own evidence, and not follow what Haidut said 10 years ago on a forum or what the X echo chamber is saying, as it is a lot of the time they are spreading info that is 100% conjecture and is a waste of time and resources. Being serious.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • MauritioM
          Mauritio
          last edited by

          I thinks it's an interesting thought. But I don't really see the upside here. It mainly appeals to people because it's mysterious and hard to obtain etc.
          I get it... the first email I send Ray was about an obscure progesterone/DHT mix of a designer steroid , which I'm surprised he even replied to 🐶
          But if you want DHT with a longer half life you can use 11ketoDHT.

          I still think 11ketoT is an interesting option on paper. IIRC I saw a study suggesting it doesn't even aromatize.

          Dare to think.

          My X:
          x.com/Metabolicmonstr

          alfredoolivasA jamezb46J 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • MauritioM
            Mauritio @T-3
            last edited by

            @T-3 said in Adamantyl Ester Steroids: The Ultimate Androgen?:

            I've seen the hepatoxicity concerns raised numerous times about oral androsterone on RPF/LTF (e.g. on the androsterone mega thread). What does everyone think about oral androsterone at 4 to 8 drops daily? Would that be "torching the liver"?

            Have you looked for studies on that ?

            Androsterone is an FXR agonist, which are used to treat liver disease. So if anything it should help the liver.

            Dare to think.

            My X:
            x.com/Metabolicmonstr

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • alfredoolivasA
              alfredoolivas @Mauritio
              last edited by alfredoolivas

              @Mauritio 11-keto steroids are extremley interesting - 11-keto testosterone can get reduced back into 11-hydroxybeta-testosterone, which is very similar structurally to cortisol - it has the same double bond on position 3-4, the 3 keto group and the 11 hydroxl group.

              11 keto progesterone looks insane; it turns back into 11-hydroxybeta progesterone which is basically corticosterone without the OH at the top.

              080d0b93-8454-44f7-a1a3-2a6bf93db427-image.png

              11 betahydroxy progesterone
              45095267-35c8-49c7-a2ea-216c1528ff1b-image.png
              corticosterone.

              This structural similarity will make it into an insane anti-glucocorticoid. Progesterone binds to the GR receptor with around 8% the binding affinity as cortisol.

              it is known that the addition of a hydroxyl group at position 11, increases binding to the GR receptor. Fluoxymesterone has a hydroxyl group at position 11, and it binds to the GR stronger than testosterone.

              It is structurally similar to dexamethesone
              fluoxymesterone
              affde52d-1b41-4fa1-a58d-4e2cca13b616-image.png

              dexamethesone
              3e3bae95-1099-420f-9182-cd8d534db036-image.png

              So 11 beta hydroxyprogesterone will probably be an even more strogner GR antagonist than progesterone is - 8% relative to cortisol is very high already.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • jamezb46J
                jamezb46 @Mauritio
                last edited by

                @Mauritio

                Patrick arnold is still selling 11-KT.

                Pretty expensive, but here it is

                https://prototypenutrition.com/collections/all-products/products/11-kt-spray-original-formula

                In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life

                alfredoolivasA MauritioM 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • alfredoolivasA
                  alfredoolivas @jamezb46
                  last edited by

                  @jamezb46 Really good doses, 250mg of 11-KT per dose, using alcohol based solvents! It's a massive bottle and a single dose is 50 sprays, it isn't clear how many doses are in a bottle though.

                  jamezb46J 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • MauritioM
                    Mauritio @jamezb46
                    last edited by Mauritio

                    @jamezb46
                    Iron legion also sell it for much less.
                    https://iron-legion.com/products/xi-kt

                    "Conversely, 11-KT did not activate estrogen receptor-mediated transactivation in aromatase-expressed MCF-7 cells, whereas testosterone did following conversion to estrogen. 11-KT did not affect the estrogen/estrogen receptor -mediated cell proliferation of MCF-7 cells. Furthermore, it significantly inhibited cell proliferation when androgen receptor was transfected into MCF-7 cells."
                    https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/101/10/3582/2764896#:~:text=Conversely%2C 11-KT did,into MCF-7 cells.

                    It also seems to be able to fill in for testosterone functionally. At least it does so when you chemically castrate men.
                    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33974560/

                    1000013729.png

                    Dare to think.

                    My X:
                    x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • jamezb46J
                      jamezb46 @alfredoolivas
                      last edited by

                      @alfredoolivas 7.2 grams 11KT per bottle, 29 doses per bottle

                      In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • MauritioM
                        Mauritio
                        last edited by

                        What do you guys think of laxogenin?

                        Its very similar to diosgenin, which increases DHT and DHEA.
                        And its available for purchase.

                        https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9151512/

                        Dare to think.

                        My X:
                        x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                        jamezb46J C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • jamezb46J
                          jamezb46 @Mauritio
                          last edited by

                          @Mauritio

                          The paper you linked refers to the synthetic 5-alpha-hydroxylaxogenin.

                          That compound is different from the naturally occurring laxogenin, which is used in Chinese medicine.

                          In fact, the FDA has declared the sale of 5-alpha-hydroxylaxogenin (5AHL) in supplements to be illegal:
                          (https://www.usada.org/spirit-of-sport/illegal-ingredient-5-alpha-hydroxy-laxogenin-supplements/g)

                          5AHL is thought to be synthesized from diosgenin, so perhaps that is where you're getting the association.

                          Now, although the study you linked was about the synthetic derivative, one thing did catch my eye about the structure of laxogenin.

                          Laxogenin

                          images.png

                          6-OXO

                          imgsrv.png

                          Notice how both compounds have a ketone group on position 6. The latter (6-OXO) is known to be an effective aromatase inhibitor and significantly increased the concentration of T and DHT when given in doses of 300 or 600 mg/day to men.

                          https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2100070/

                          The 6-OXO is a suicidal AI, and it's obvious that the 3 unsaturations in the A-ring allow it to have that property.

                          It is possible that Laxogenin might also function as an AI if somehow the necessary double bonds were introduced when it gets metabolized. I doubt that can happen though.

                          It is also possible that laxogenin also has its own anabolic or androgenic activity independent of aromatase inhibition.

                          In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life

                          MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • MauritioM
                            Mauritio @jamezb46
                            last edited by

                            @jamezb46 said in Adamantyl Ester Steroids: The Ultimate Androgen?:

                            The paper you linked refers to the synthetic 5-alpha-hydroxylaxogenin.

                            Yes, that's what most people are referring to when they mention laxogenin

                            @jamezb46 said in Adamantyl Ester Steroids: The Ultimate Androgen?:

                            In fact, the FDA has declared the sale of 5-alpha-hydroxylaxogenin (5AHL) in supplements to be illegal:

                            In Europe it's widely available. Just found one for 40€ . It just seems hit or miss if there's actually laxogenin in there .

                            @jamezb46 said in Adamantyl Ester Steroids: The Ultimate Androgen?:

                            It is possible that Laxogenin might also function as an AI if somehow the necessary double bonds were introduced when it gets metabolized. I doubt that can happen though.

                            Im just going to try it out. Some people notice nothing , some say it's great.

                            Dare to think.

                            My X:
                            x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                            jamezb46J alfredoolivasA 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • jamezb46J
                              jamezb46 @Mauritio
                              last edited by

                              @Mauritio

                              Any reason to go with 5AHL over Tribulus Terrestris?

                              In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life

                              MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • alfredoolivasA
                                alfredoolivas @Mauritio
                                last edited by

                                @Mauritio I believe the benefits might come from simply consuming high quantities of a fully saturated lipophilic compound, and its effects on the lipophilicty of the cell membrane.

                                If you are consuming hundreds of milligrams of this fully saturated lipohiloc molecule, there is a likely hood that it will have an affinity to the phospholipid bilayer and its presence will make it more lipophilic.

                                More lipophilic cell membranes increase the affinity and downstream conversion of steroids, increasing the 5-AR pool of steroids within the cell.

                                Me and @jamezb46 came up with some compelling studies to show that increasing lipophilicity of the cell increases uptake of steroids and their metabolism, and caffeine can do this in humans, as shown by caffeine increasing the concentration of anavar by 20x, increasing its half life & metabolism. Anecdotally, after drinking 7 tea spoons of instant coffee mixed with coffees throughout the day, I have noticeably seen my muscles swell and look bigger as if I am on double the dose of testosterone.

                                https://bioenergetic.forum/post/40797

                                jamezb46J 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • MauritioM
                                  Mauritio @jamezb46
                                  last edited by

                                  @jamezb46 For me? I've tried tribulus and didn't like it.

                                  Dare to think.

                                  My X:
                                  x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • MauritioM
                                    Mauritio
                                    last edited by

                                    I thought it was a slightly unsaturated molecule ...

                                    Nice theory. But couldn't all of this be explained by caffeine increasing liver health, leading to faster(first pass)metabolism ?

                                    Dare to think.

                                    My X:
                                    x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                                    alfredoolivasA 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • alfredoolivasA
                                      alfredoolivas @Mauritio
                                      last edited by alfredoolivas

                                      @Mauritio Liver health takes a while to improve right? Furthermore, this involved a single administration of a normal dose of caffeine to a regular caffeine consumer. Any potential improvements in liver health would have already occurred due to the subject’s habitual caffeine consumption. However, these effects did not manifest in the absence of caffeine.

                                      It's saturated, has a bit of a mental structure.
                                      abaaad30-7013-4cdf-a7dc-ec6da976080a-image.png

                                      jamezb46J 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • jamezb46J
                                        jamezb46 @alfredoolivas
                                        last edited by

                                        @alfredoolivas

                                        I think that the lipophilic derivative of caffeine, pentoxifylline should be even better in that regard than caffeine.

                                        Pentoxifylline

                                        pentoxifylline.png

                                        Caffeine

                                        caffeine.jpg

                                        In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • jamezb46J
                                          jamezb46 @alfredoolivas
                                          last edited by

                                          @alfredoolivas Its structure is similar to Brassinosteroids. Those are the active ingredients in "pine pollen" supplements.

                                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassinosteroid

                                          Brassinosteroids.png

                                          In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • jamezb46J
                                            jamezb46 @alfredoolivas
                                            last edited by

                                            @alfredoolivas

                                            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31381816/

                                            Derivatives of brassinosteroids are known to be anti-estrogenic (studied for breast cancer)

                                            In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life

                                            MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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