Experiments with transdermal hormones
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@Kilgore It's just hype. In reality, there is no golden bullet when it comes to androgenic anabolic steroids; virtually every androgenic anabolic steroid will create these effects if you take a high enough dose, diet and train hard.
A select few accounts are currently hyping DHT esters up; DHT esters aren't even available on the market, and if there are any available, they certainly don't have a certificate of analysis, proving that it is DHT in the product.
For all we know, this "DHT" people are being sold could be another steroid like trenbolone, which also has profound effects; but really any anabolic androgenic steroid apart from those that cause water retention, could be in these DHT ester products, and easily replicate the effects of DHT.
If I see some studies on DHT propionate or enanthate, that shows it has unique properties compared to other steroids, I may change my opinion, but as I see it, this is anecdotally driven hype.
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@alfredoolivas Not hype. There's a reason DHT and its esters are the most gatekept steroids/androgens. It is as anabolic as tren mg per mg.
These few accounts that are promoting DHT esters just have a source/mutual that makes DHT E and DHT P. It's not hard to esterify DHT base if you have some organic chemistry knowledge.
DHT enanthate has been studied and is an approved treatment for gyno. Part of why these transformations seem extreme is because the recomposition effect of DHT is actually that impressive, it literally "deletes" fat from estrogenic regions.
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@alfredoolivas Not hype. There's a reason DHT and its esters are the most gatekept steroids/androgens. It is as anabolic as tren mg per mg.
Completely untrue; skeletal muscle expresses high concentrations of 3a-HSD the enzyme that deactivates DHT, which causes DHT to be deactivated in skeletal muscle and therefore express very little androgenic or anabolic effects in muscle tissue.
Whereas, trenbolone can't be metabolised by 3a-HSD in muscle tissues, allowing it to bind to muscle cell androgen receptors, without being metabolised.
Furthermore, trenbolone has an equal affinity to the unmetabolised DHT to the androgen receptor; it also directly binds to and antagonises the glucocorticoid receptor, which DHT cannot do.
So even if DHT was not metabolised by 3a-HSD in skeletal muscle, it would not be more anabolic than trenbolone.Therefore, this statement is incredibly untrue.
DHT enanthate has been studied and is an approved treatment for gyno. Part of why these transformations seem extreme is because the recomposition effect of DHT is actually that impressive, it literally "deletes" fat from estrogenic regions.
Anti-estrogenic ≠ equal fat loss
Anti-prolactin ≠ equal fat lossIf a substance being anti-estrogenic would induce fat loss, then exemestane would be the ultimate weight loss drug; but in fact, this is not the case at all.
Estrogen actually causes weight loss. Unlike the pro-DHT activists, I can actually show studies that firstly;
1.) Estrogen provides to the anti-obesity effects of androgens
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0031938479900453
"Treatment of castrated male rats with low doses of testosterone propionate (TP; 0.2 mg/day) increases food intake and body weight gain, but long-term treatment with a higher dose of TP (1 mg/day) reduces body weight gain and carcass fat content. Concurrent treatment with androsta-1,4,6-triene-3, 17-dione (ATD), which blocks the aromatization of androgens to estrogens, prevents the weight-reducing effects of high doses of TP. "
https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/162/6/bqab045/6155679
"Testosterone Reduces Body Fat in Male Mice by Stimulation of Physical Activity Via Extrahypothalamic ERα Signaling...Testosterone but not dihydrotestosterone decreases fat mass in obese hypogonadal male mice
2.) DHT is fattening itself
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16741268/"DHT treatment resulted in obesity, associated with reduced energy expenditure and fat oxidation. "
@pannacottas I am not claiming that DHT is fattening; I am simply claiming that alongside basically any other androgen, DHT is not the golden bullet for burning fat.
Your claims could simply be proven by providing studies that back these claims; if you have any, please share.
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@alfredoolivas DHT e or p will be infinitely safer than tren.
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@risingfire any bioidentical androgen (T, DHT, DHEA and androsterone) is safer than tren.
I was just saying that tren is an effective anabolic agent and out of all the androgens it induces the most fat loss (although androgens do not induce much fat loss by themselves).
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@wester130 Have you seen the COA.... look at the font differences, the low resolution of the document but the high resolution of the text and the misalignment of the text. Someone has clearly edited it, in order to fake the COA for this "DHT heptanoate"
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There is no commercially produced DHT enanthate apparently
https://x.com/solothesensei/status/1877098369144992063
The AlphaGel guy might be looking to source/produce it though.
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@gloryus AlphaGels claims to sell a DHT gel at concentrations that simply don’t make sense chemically. They state their gel contains 200mg of DHT per ml in an ethanol-based solution with carbomer and isopropyl myristate for consistency.
However, the science doesn’t add up. DHT only dissolves in ethanol at a maximum of 50mg per ml, so achieving a concentration four times higher than that is impossible. To put this in perspective, pharmaceutical DHT gels like Andactrim contain just 25mg of DHT per ml, while testosterone gels such as Androgel only manage 16.2mg per ml. These numbers reflect the natural limits of how much androgen can dissolve in an ethanol-based gel.
Given this, AlphaGels’ claims seem highly questionable. Without clear evidence or independent lab tests to back their formulation, it’s hard to take their product seriously. As a rule of thumb, be vary suspicious of underground steroid labs.
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I still can't get a good explanation for what good effect people think exogeneous DHT has. A large, large portion of it is converted into estrogens 3α-androstanediol and 3β-androstanediol, which bind to both ERα and ERβ, to the latter with better affinity, and does not bind to androgen receptors. The enzymes that convert DHT to these hormones are 3α-HSD and 3β-HSD and are abundant in the liver, skin, muscle and brain and are metabolizing all of that DHT you're putting into your blood. In the brain, 3α-androstanediol is responsible for the pro-GABA effects and 3β-androstanediol for the anxiolytic effects and also the regulation of hormone production through (the suppression of) the HPTA.
If you want DHT's effects in the muscle you need to take something artificial that can't be 3β-HSD reduced, like anavar.
Otherwise, with DHT being a paracrine hormone in tissues where it has an important effect, it seems better to supplement with the pro-hormone (T) and support 5α-reductase production.
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I have the patent for DHT valerate synthesis. Maybe I’ll source stanolone from PPL and add the ester myself.
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@alfredoolivas said in Experiments with transdermal hormones:
@wester130 Have you seen the COA.... look at the font differences, the low resolution of the document but the high resolution of the text and the misalignment of the text. Someone has clearly edited it, in order to fake the COA for this "DHT heptanoate"
lol. nice job.
Comparing it to a PPL test report makes me feel confident in PPL.
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I was planning to make my own solutions, but since PPL still isn't restocking the DHT (and I want to order everything at once) im just gonna start using what I bought from alphagels.
I have transdermal testosterone, "200mg/ml" from them. I asked for the non DMSO version as I was advised by a great friend on here. It still leaves my skin itchy and puffed up (which is why I wanted to make my own solutions). I cant imagine putting this on my balls lol. Also it smells like tomato soup....
I don't see any crystals inside the bottle but there are cyrstals on the outside. It seems to me that the the sealing isnt the best with these and some of the solution makes it outside. What could it mean if there are crystals outside but not inside the bottle?
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I know theres several similar recipes already out there but this works great for me:
Test no ester 5%
Ethanol 96° 47,5%
IPM 28,5%
Propylene Glycol 19%
All measured by weight.
I assume around 25% absorbtion in armpits(or scrotum) and mainly go by feeling for dosing, treat symptoms and not numbers, mostly 0,5 to1 ml, so between 50 to 100mg test, so between 12 and 25 mg test absorbed.
Only AM and noon dosing to not supress LH/FSH during the night, this works because of the short halflife.
Great to combine with low dose masteron or proviron.
Added in preg50mg (and now tried adding 25mg dhea to see how that feels) and progesteron only when I'm stressed.
No suppression for me on this protocol when looking at ballsize, mood, energy and libido.
This is by far not bodybuilding dosing but i gain and maintain muscle easily with 1x weights and 1x squash a week. -
@laoa Seems like a great recipe thanks for sharing
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@alfredoolivas
Thank you
Actually I think theres room for improvement still. 10% ipm might be safer and almost just as effective for lipid disruption in the skin. I'd have to think about what to replace it with. -
I have been looking into transdermal solutions again.
All of these have reasonable solubility ( ChatGPT & Claude estimate ~200-250mg/mL, good Penetration ( 50-60% ) and offer slow/gradual release. Curious about your thoughts on the following :
Formula 1: Deep Penetration & Sustained Release (Balanced Absorption)
- Absorption Speed: Medium-Slow (6-12 hours release)
- Penetration Depth: High
Ingredients (50mL Batch)
- Dimethyl Isosorbide (DMI) (40%, 20mL) – Main solvent for dissolving steroids, slows absorption for extended release.
- Isopropyl Myristate (IPM) (30%, 15mL) – Reduces greasiness, enhances skin penetration without irritation.
- Squalane (Olive-derived or Shark-derived) (20%, 10mL) – Improves deep penetration, nourishes skin, prevents irritation.
- Oleic Acid (5%, 2.5mL) – Softens skin barrier, increases steroid absorption into the bloodstream.
- D-Limonene (Optional for extra penetration boost) (5%, 2.5mL) – Natural terpene that enhances drug diffusion through the skin.
Formula 2: Ultra-Slow Absorption with Max Penetration (Longest Release)
- Absorption Speed: Slow (12-24 hours release)
- Penetration Depth: Very High
Ingredients (50mL Batch)
- Dimethyl Isosorbide (DMI) (35%, 17.5mL) – Slows absorption, ensures deep penetration.
- Methyl Laurate (30%, 15mL) – Highly lipophilic carrier for long-lasting absorption.
- Squalane (20%, 10mL) – Extends absorption duration, prevents skin irritation.
- Oleic Acid (10%, 5mL) – Opens up skin for better steroid absorption.
- D-Limonene (5%, 2.5mL) – Boosts penetration into the bloodstream.
Formula 3: Balanced Medium Absorption with High Efficiency
- Absorption Speed: Medium (4-8 hours release)
- Penetration Depth: High
Ingredients (50mL Batch)
- Propylene Glycol (30%, 15mL) – Dissolves steroids well, enhances penetration.
- Isopropyl Myristate (IPM) (30%, 15mL) – Keeps formula lightweight, prevents stickiness.
- Squalane (20%, 10mL) – Slows absorption, extends release time.
- Oleic Acid (10%, 5mL) – Improves steroid solubility & absorption.
- D-Limonene (10%, 5mL) – Provides a terpene boost for enhanced penetration.
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@metabolicmilk Since you're using less common solvents and a long list of excipients, you'll need to make sure every excipient is fully miscible with each other and that your active ingredient dissolves properly in the solvent.
DMI and Propylene Glycol aren’t widely used in labs, so there’s little to no published data on how well hormones like testosterone dissolve in them. And when it comes to other excipients like squalane and IPM, there’s absolutely no data at all on how they interact with DMI or Propylene Glycol. Additionally, there is no data on how IPM interacts with squalane, for example.
Chat GPT is very, very bad at estimating data. It won't estimate figures unless you force it to, for this precise reason. Therefore, ignore its solubility and penetration figures.
The only realistic way you may achieve this is ordering an excess of all of these ingredients and figuring out the miscibility of the active ingredient and excipients by trial and error; and even if you do this, you will have no idea if the active ingredient exists as crystals inside the gel, or if it is dissolved inside the solvent. Pharmaceutical gels are designed to have the active ingredient to be either crystalline or dissolved in the gel; when it's crystalline, the crystals will sit on top of the skin and absorb into the skin, creating a more local effect. When the API is dissolved in the gel, it goes systematic.
Even if you do this, it might simply not work. My recommendation is this: injectable testosterone propionate will offer testosterone that has a 19-hour half-life, quicker to apply than a gel, cheaper, MUCH more convenient (you don't have to make it), and it is researched, therefore, you will know exactly how much testosterone will be going into your blood stream and for how long. It won't hurt to inject if you use a 27g needle, in your buttocks, therefore, I am willing to say it may be more comfortable to use.
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@alfredoolivas said in Experiments with transdermal hormones:
Since you're using less common solvents and a long list of excipients, you'll need to make sure every excipient is fully miscible with each other and that your active ingredient dissolves properly in the solvent.
DMI and Propylene Glycol aren’t widely used in labs, so there’s little to no published data on how well hormones like testosterone dissolve in them. And when it comes to other excipients like squalane and IPM, there’s absolutely no data at all on how they interact with DMI or Propylene Glycol. Additionally, there is no data on how IPM interacts with squalane, for example.
Chat GPT is very, very bad at estimating data. It won't estimate figures unless you force it to, for this precise reason. Therefore, ignore its solubility and penetration figures.
The only realistic way you may achieve this is ordering an excess of all of these ingredients and figuring out the miscibility of the active ingredient and excipients by trial and error; and even if you do this, you will have no idea if the active ingredient exists as crystals inside the gel, or if it is dissolved inside the solvent. Pharmaceutical gels are designed to have the active ingredient to be either crystalline or dissolved in the gel; when it's crystalline, the crystals will sit on top of the skin and absorb into the skin, creating a more local effect. When the API is dissolved in the gel, it goes systematic.
You’ve raised some good points :
Miscibility Concerns:
I plan to conduct small-scale miscibility tests for all solvent/excipient combinations before scaling up. If phase separation occurs, I’ll explore emulsifiers or adjust ratios to achieve homogeneity.Solubility:
propylene glycol (PG) is well-documented for steroids like testosterone, with solubility typically ranging from 50–100 mg/mL. DMSO is also widely used and can dissolve testosterone at high concentrations (>200 mg/mL).Crystalline vs. Dissolved API:
If undissolved crystals are present, I’ll adjust the solvent blend or increase co-solvent ratios. -
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