Androsterone
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@GreekDemiGod I took it with Pansterone, applied to the scrotum. The undesirable excessive GABA effects hit me long before the low E symptoms do. Same with large amount of DHT. But andro is slightly worse about this. I hypothesize that it's because DHT breaks down into both andro and epiandro, so you're likely getting a little bit of adrenaline with the DHT that you don't get with the androsterone. I've never used either of them in full 6-8 week cycles, so maybe if someone stuck with it they'd start getting low estrogen idk.
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If you're already hypogonadal then you might have low estrogen from the start, which makes this an entirely different ball game. Hypogonadal males should probably stay clear of the 5-ar's until they get their T levels back in the green.
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@Mulloch94 what would you suggest for someone has low estrogen and want to increase it?
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Everyone has good things to say about androsterone but I've actually had a bad experience with it the couple times I've used it. I feel like it tanks your estrogen too low and gives you the classic symptoms of low estrogen like achy joints + I got a lot of aggression and coldness when taking it. These symptoms aren't as pronounced with 1mg or 2mg as it is with something like 8mg, especially when applied topically to the scrotum. Androsterone definitely can kill your sex drive/lower erection strength at high enough dosages.
With progesterone I feel happy, joyful, and relaxed, androsterone I feel like an emotionless psychopath. My goal in taking androsterone was facial masculinization which I don't think turned out too bad, though I cannot fairly make a comparison. I probably wouldn't take it again, maybe only a drop or two a day.
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@Mulloch94 Is there like a good overview on everything you said + more on male hormones you can recommend? Like A to Z stuff. Or I will have to pick bits up here and there? Im so lost lol.
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@Mulloch94 said in Androsterone:
I actually noticed it's pheromonal effects working for me, quite well in fact.
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@milkgains_bro said in Androsterone:
@Mulloch94 what would you suggest for someone has low estrogen and want to increase it?
I guess it depends on how low. If you're hypogonadal, I think TRT without an estrogen antagonist will bring the levels up nicely. If it starts to get too high you can always take lower dosages of T more frequently, which seems to work well for some people.
If you've got good T levels then you can use something like Boron daily to bring the E2 levels back up into the range. Some people might recommend 5-ar inhibitors, which will work, but they will many other issues, so I wouldn't advise that method.
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@Sugar Don't put androsterone on your balls or dick, I learned that lesson the hard way. You'll get some limp dick action going, lol.
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@Kilgore said in Androsterone:
@Mulloch94 Is there like a good overview on everything you said + more on male hormones you can recommend? Like A to Z stuff. Or I will have to pick bits up here and there? Im so lost lol.
Your best source will probably be to read all the user reports on the RPF. Most of the studies are posted there too. A LOT of people were reporting that the higher dosages gave them issues, while the lower dosages seemed to do all right. Several of them also used pansterone with it as well.
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@Mulloch94 Oh I forgot to mention that I also ordered cortinon (progesterone + DHEA 3:1 ratio). I read somewhere that the ratio should be: 9:1 cortinon:androsterone in order to help balance side effects.
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A side comment on the smell, I have both 11-keto-DHT and Androsterone and to me they smell the same, but maybe it's individual, how we perceive these substances, at least olfactorily.
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Twitter Thread by Chudlord on everything about Androsterone: https://x.com/PunishedChudy/status/1787473517916619126
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I'm currently supplementing Androsterone along with Progesterone and DHEA to help prevent any conversion into estrogen. I take 5mg of andro, 5mg of DHEA and 40mg of progesterone.
I also noticed that taking them changed my body odour in my research this can be an indication of an increase of androgens.
I've definitely noticed a reduction in stress and a big increase in libido.
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@Verdad I know you posted this a while ago but was the change in odour a pleasant smell? Assuming no deodorant did you smell better before or after using the Androsterone?
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I have used it on and off for years. Biggest benefit I noticed was a calmness. No doubt from the GABA agonism. Unlike others I never noticed a pheromone effect but I’m also married and don’t look for it. But the calmness is definitely noticeable. I also noticed a thermogenic effect. Raising of pulse and temp. I have never tried more than 10 mg. I usually use topical.
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@Lothric as far as the Norwood effect, I have had a bad hairline and it’s been thinning for years now and I essentially cut my hair on a 1 now. Idk if this has exasperated the issue. Idk if the androgen theory is true but I refuse to crash my DHT for hair. I rather be bald and high DHT than have good hair and fuck it up
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@PrinceTrebata
I would not say it was a pleasant smell. It was not very bad or foul or anything but not pleasant either. In my recent supplementation I find this change of smell is significantly less than before but it is still there. -
Here (October 2017 or earlier) it appears ray addressed dht, androsterone and ketos:
Post in thread 'Ray Peat Email Advice Depository'
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/ray-peat-email-advice-depository.1035/post-285682“
Wagner: "Hey , I'd like to know what do you think about 11-keto-dht, does the addition of the ketone group makes it more toxic? Half life is longer which sounds like a good idea, it is naturally present in the body and a strong androgen. By the way there is this paper ( Feed-forward control of prostate growth: dihydrotestosterone induces expression of its own biosynthetic enzyme), on how dht stimulates its own synthesis.."Ray: "I think it’s risky to supplement hormonally active intermediates in steroid metabolism, since it can have widespread unexpected effects.
W: "Ok thanks, I thought dht and 11-keto-dht were end point steroids (Hans selye work on combining upstream and end point steroids is interesting) , does that mean you would not supplement with androsterone either?"
R: "I think I might use DHT, but not androsterone or the ketos."
W: "Androsterone combined with small amounts of dhea and preg felt very positive * but perhaps too potent for daily use, the steroids pathways made me think it would be safe, however safety has been mostly studied in women."
R: "The immediate feeling is so good that people usually overdose, risking long term imbalance in metabolism."
W: "I see, I understand your caution , do you have any idea what kind of imbalances this could create (besides T suppression)? As for androsterone , do you have any idea what doses would be well below the threshold of an overdose?
Regarding dht, andractim is the only bioidentical dht gel I found but the one source available online (allsaintsclinic) is temporarily unable to supply it. From what I saw the gel delivers 25mg of dht per dose and only 2.5 mg make it through the skin."R: "In general, one milligram/day of the strong androgens is safe. 2.5 mg wouldn’t be dangerous, but the absorbed percentage can vary a lot.
For a young person, 5 mg DHEA orally is a very effective amount, very old people could use 10 to 15 mg. For a year I took an average of 3000 mg of pregnenolone daily, with nothing but good effects, but when I tried different brands (that was from Syntex), even 20 mg caused intestinal inflammation symptoms.
I haven’t used androsterone, but if it functions as a pheromone, as some people have said, I think that could activate the pituitary in possibly harmful ways."W: "Thanks. About DHEA, if used topically would you use a different dose or expect different effects?
I can confirm androsterone functions as a pheromone. Can you share more information on pheromones negatively interacting with the pituitary?
Here is what I found on androsterone and the pituitary:R: "It takes a larger dose on the skin than orally. Male pheromones cause a surge of estrogen in females. For example, a young woman who hadn’t menstruated in many months visited on a spring afternoon to ask my advice, and she stayed until it was getting cold so she borrowed my sweater. She returned it the next day, and said her period had started. That has been called the “male mouse effect,” a surge of estrogen that will cause a pregnant female to abort if it smells a new male, but it seems to be very strong in humans and mammals generally."
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@16charactersitis HAHA you found the ovulation sweater quote, thanks for sharing
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@Kilgore warm, relaxed, confident. change my natural body odor, made it very pleasant lol. also feel like random people wanted to talk to me more, could've just been a coincidence. def needed more dietary cholesterol to support it.
